Trying to find which units that 3 brothers served In

[Robert Wimpenny]

Peter that makes perfect sense, have heard about that aspect of paying to open records but do not know of anyone who has ever done It, my mum was born in 1926 and is blacked out on 1939 register she died 2012, but we know she was definatly living there in 39

I will spend a few hours this week scouring Electoral rolls and see If anything turns up when Harry /Harold ? reached 21 years old

thanks again

 

[Robert Wimpenny]

Just had confirmation from my German friend that It Is Indeed "frost In the feet"  "cold In the feet"

so frostbite or trenchfoot - probably the latter

[PRC]

33 minutes ago, Robert Wimpenny said:

Just had confirmation from my German friend that It Is Indeed "frost In the feet"  "cold In the feet"

so frostbite or trenchfoot - probably the latter

Some of the men in the German records are shown as captured at Serre on the 13th and others on the 14th. Could just be a clerical error. but to me it raises the possibility that these men were cut-off when the attack failed and so could have been out all night, possibly in water-filled shell-holes and possibly without greatcoats or any other effective form of protection from a cold early winter night in north-west Europe - the additional weight would have slowed them down when they were attacking. May not have been the case but you can certainly see the potential for toes to be lost.

Regards,
Peter

[Robert Wimpenny]

Yes Indeed, whilst researching trenchfoot yesterday i saw some pretty awful photos of what could happen In a short space of time

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Robert Wimpenny said:

Just had confirmation from my German friend that It Is Indeed "frost In the feet"  "cold In the feet"

"Frost i.d. Fussen" = Simple when it is explained!

"i.d." is probably "in die" - as in "Frost in die Fussen"!

Note to self: try and remember that!!

:-) M

Edit: That he doesn't seem to have claimed/drawn a pension suggest that whichever it was it seems that it probably didn't have too long-term or permanent an outcome.

Edited 24 July , 2021 by Matlock1418
edit

[Robert Wimpenny]

Trenchfoot more than likely - guess no exact German translation of the English name.

 

[Matlock1418]

14 minutes ago, Robert Wimpenny said:

Trenchfoot more than likely

Yes - Probably less long-term/permanent than frostbite.

:-) M

[George Rayner]

My apologies-I looked at the wrong Samuel Cockcroft. It is as Peter says there is a redacted with the household so theoretically a child/person still living although within the transcript on FMP it claims there are two redacted records-but I can only see one on the original copy.

George

[Robert Wimpenny]

Easy done, have just found a Harry living with Samuel and Emily in 1949 as I guessed this would be when Harry was 21

so If Harry Is the only descendant of 8 siblings that will be my only line of research to find any living "bloodline" offspring.

Again many thanks to everyone - in the space of 3 days we have advanced so far forward with our family history research

[PRC]

@Robert Wimpenny

Apologies for the delay in following this up.

I started looking for Georges' army career using the near number approach, starting with looking at the North Staffordshire number, 31765, to see if that was also the first unit he served with on joining up, and if so, whether a date of enlistment \ mobilisation \ conscription could be established.

However the near number search didn’t prove quite so helpful and I had to expand it several times, and even then for the ones with surviving records it painted a very confusing picture.

Background information. The 3rd Battalion North Staffordshire Regiment were stationed at Wallsend from October 1916. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/the-prince-of-waless-north-staffordshire-regiment/
And the 3rd Battalion Duke of Wellingtons (West Riding Regiment) were stationed at North Shields from May 1915. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/duke-of-wellingtons-west-riding-regiment/

31750 Luther Booth subsequently 71471 Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Regiment. VM & BWM only, plus SWB. (MiC) Medical Report shows admission to No.11 CCS  on the 20th October 1917 with GSW to Buttock and Abdomen. He was serving (probably) with 17 Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Regiment. Aged 20 he had completed one years service in the Army of which 9 months had been with the field force. (So approximately October 1916 and overseas January 1917) (FMP) Possibly SWB Roll as 419107 Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Regiment, discharged as a result of wounds 2nd July 1918. Stated to have enlisted 2nd March 1916. Age 20.(FMP)

3/31751 Frank Davison, subsequently 54711 Royal Berkshire Regiment. VM & BWM only. (MIC). Surviving service records. Mobilised 3rd November 1916 at Halifax and posted to the 3rd Battalion, North Staffordshire Regiment. He was then a 23 year old unmarried Cloth Finisher from Huddersfield. He was stationed at Wallsend from the 4th November 1916 to the 14th March 1917. On the 15th March 1917 he embarked for the Middle East as part of a draft to the 7th Battalion. On the 4th June 1919 he was transferred to the 7th Battalion Royal Berkshire Regiment.

3/31752 Thomas Cosgrove subsequently 54712 Royal Berkshire Regiment. VM & BWM only. (MIC). Medical Report – Private 31752 T. Cosgrove, 7th North Staffs, admitted British Convalescent Depot, Amara, 31st July 1917. Had been treated for Effects of Heat. (FMP). Surviving discharge records. Joined at Huddersfield on the 3rd November 1916, aged 20 and a Fitters Labourer, he was medically examined at Halidax the same day. He was at the West Ridings Depot at Heaton on the 4th November 1916 when he was posted to the 3rd Battalion – Regiment not stated. He was stationed at Wallsend from the 4th November 1916 to the 24th December 1916. He set sail for India on the 25th December 1916. He left India on the 23rd April 1917, disembarked “Busra” 2nd May 1917 and joined his (unnamed) unit in the field on the 19th May 1917. On the 4th June 1919 he was transferred to the 7th Battalion Royal Berkshire Regiment. He joined up with them in the field on the 17th June 1919 when it was then part of the Army of the Black Sea.

31753 No MiC match. No service records. (FMP)

31754 Fred Edinburgh, subsequently G/13965 East Kent Regiment. VM & BWM only. (MIC).

3/31755 Robert Garnett. British War Medal only. (MiC). Surviving discharge records shows him discharged to Class Z from the 3rd Battalion on the 24th February 1919 to a permanent address of 10 Rawson Square, Idle, Bradford, Yorkshire. He was enlisted either the 8th December 1915 or the  23rd March 1916 and was mobilised on the 3rd November 1916. He was posted from the West Riding Depot to the 3rd Battalion – but it doesn’t say which Regiment. He was at Wallsend  from the 4th November 1916 to the 27th November 1916 and was then sent out to India – again no unit is stated..  He served in India in 1917 where his health seems to have rapidly deteriorated. He returned to the UK in early 1918 and by the 4th March was posted to the 3rd Battalion, North Staffordshire Regiment. Rest of his service was in the UK. His civilian occupation was Stone Mason. He died post discharge on the 25th October 1919 and is remembered on CWGC.

31758 No MiC match. No service records. (FMP)

31757 James E S Kershaw subsequently 60009 South Staffordshire Regiment, 48756 Royal Warwickshire Regiment and 70943 Manchester Regiment. VM & BWM only. (MIC)

31758 No MiC match. No service records. (FMP)

3/31759 James E. Bates subsequently 71956 Royal Defence Corps. VM, BWM & SWB. (MiC) Some very confusing surviving Service Records for James Edmund Bates, conscripted 3rd November 1916. A Cloth Miller from Greetland Halifax, single and aged 39. One very detailed statement of service sheet shows:-
03/11/16 Posted West Riding Regiment Depot.
04/11/16 Posted 3rd Battalion West Riding Regiment.
14/03/17 Transferred to 3rd Battalion North Staffordshire Regiment for service with the B.E.F.
16/03/17 Embarked
--/03/17 At 18th Infantry Base Depot
02/04/17 Posted 2/6th Battalion 02/04/17
23/04/17 Wounded in Action, Bomb Wound Thigh.
09/07/17 Rejoined unit.
30/11/17 S.W. Arm – medically evacuated UK. Subsequent service in the UK.

But the second statement of service sheet shows him going to the 3rd Battalion North Staffs Regiment on the 4th November 1916 and the 8th Battalion on the 14th March 1917. A third copy adds him going to the 2/6th Battalion on the 2nd April 1917.

31760 Fred Heyhurst. BWM and Indian General Service Medal only. (MIC)

31761 James Greenwood. VM & BWM only. (MIC) KiA 26th August 1918 serving in South Russia with the 7th Battalion.  (SDGW). Red Cross enquiry list has him serving with Dunster Force. (FMP). Enlistment \ mobilisation period could be calculated from his War Gratuity.

31762 Alfred Hollingsworth. VM & BWM only. (MIC)

31763 Thomas Hardy subsequently 71523 Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Regiment then 136312 Machine Gun Corps. VM & BWM only. (MiC)

31764 Herbert Hodgson subsequently 71522 Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Regiment. VM & BWM only. (MiC)

31766 No MiC match. No service records. (FMP)

31767 No MiC match. No service records. (FMP)

31768 Thomas Beard subsequently 71478 Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Regiment then 143260 Machine Gun Corps. VM & BWM only. (MiC)

31769 Charles Davies subsequently 71501 Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Regiment then 425938 Labour and GS/110650 Royal Fusiliers. VM & BWM only. (MiC).

31770 No MiC match. No service records. (FMP)

31771 Arthur J. Jervis subsequently 54723 Royal Berkshire Regiment. BWM only. (MiC)

31772 Arthur H. Greatbatch subsequently 71513 Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Regiment, VM & BWM only. (MiC)

31773 Ernest H. Dudley subsequently 71502 Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Regiment, VM & BWM only. (MiC)

31774 No MiC match. No service records. (FMP)

31775 No MiC match. No service records. (FMP)

So the most likely scenario for this initial stage of the Army Career of George Cockcroft is that he was:-

Mobilised 3rd November 1916
Reported to the West Riding Depot at Heaton on the 4th November 1916.
Posted to the 3rd Battalion North Staffordshire Regiment the same day.

Hope that helps,
Peter

[Robert Wimpenny]

Peter thank you so much for following up my request, absloutly no appoligies for any delay needed,  pretty sure no posts are ever closed here,

We now have a lot of knowledge of the 3 brothers Cockcroft, until very recently we only knew of the existence of 4 (of 5) sisters,

Amazed at the amount of movement from unit to unit that went on, assuming this was mainly to fill gaps due to casualties ?

Last week my older sister and myself visited Mytholmroyd to see where the Cockcrofts lived and worked, It was very Intersting and we Intend to return soon.

Joined 2 local history groups Mytholmroyd and Hebden bridge  In the hope of learning anymore. about the family and any living descendents.

We are so grateful for all the Information we now have , and pleased to find out that all 3 brothers survived the War.

So much appreciated by us, and all Information gathered will be carefully archived for future generations of our family

[Michael Cockcroft]

On 23/07/2021 at 09:54, Matlock1418 said:

MIC: COCKCROFT, Allen

Montgomeryshire Yeomanry, 3388 and The Royal Welsh (Welch) Fusilier 54395 = BWM & VM

:-) M

Edit: I note PoW in newspaper. 

ICRC records as COCKCROFT 54395 https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/2865319/3/2 and https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/1436944/3/2

Not looked in full detail, so very briefly = C Coy, 10 RWF, Cpl. Captured Serre, 14-11-16. NoK at Brink Top Farm, Mytholmroyd.  DoB given as 9.2.87, Brearley