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Need help identifying items.


assafx
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Hi,

 

I need help identifying two objects, both came from an excavation of a WWI British army camp in Israel.

 

1.

DSC_6257.jpg.2c6c3ed158d57b78516a240d3c702269.jpg

 

2.

DSC_6293.jpg.93a2d9756e98c35f89aaef6ae7025182.jpg

 

Thank You,

Assaf

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SO is Stationary office, some item connected with a clerks office, top of a hand stamp handle maybe. ?  Modern Example.

download.jpg

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Posted (edited)

i forgot to photograph the other side which has a screw thread. i'll be at the office on sunday and will be able to photograph it.

 

the inkwell might fit!

 

Thank you

 

Edited by assafx
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The iron item looks to be a HM Stationery Office door stop. We had them in an office in the 1970s. Two versions one a simple half disk and the other with a central handle about 3/4" high. However the size looks a little small for that. They were about 4" across.

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Thank You Gunner,

The second item seems to be made of brass, it should be about 1". on the other hand, it was found in an ash layer of a wooden structure that must had a door or two.

I also need to look at the glass items report (that is in the making), to see if we have remains of an ink well.

 

Assaf

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Item 1 would probably be for a pneumatic (less likely hydraulic) valve to charge something with 3-10 seconds of pressure, but beyond that...? I suppose it could be a charge of fuel.

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Just now, DavidOwen said:

Might the first object have something to do with a water tap?

Perhaps, but why would you not be allowed to open it for more than 10 seconds?

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This is the site:

Ron and I are writing the excavation report and hope to finish it by Dec 31st. After analyzing 70% of the finds from the refuse pits and the structure. we assume that the structure, whihc is a wooden structure with a stone foundation, was used as a general storage.

we have an item that we suspect is a water pump, the item on the left.

B-885179-1509093045223165.jpg.4846b6d0a3e5ac0592a2c0699b56c2e8.jpg

 

Assaf

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Item to the right is a MG FEEDBLOCK, And as it was in Israel then must be a vickers!

Mark

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The item on the left looks like some sort of isolation valve, the screw threaded bar lifts the 'gate' when turned ,by using a 'key' which fitted over the square drive end. Allowing whatever it was used for up the pipe and out of the square open flanged mouth, or vice versa. Was it a 'faucet' outlet for a water supply point?, maybe used for filling water carts?

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11 hours ago, exXIX said:

The item on the left looks like some sort of isolation valve, the screw threaded bar lifts the 'gate' when turned ,by using a 'key' which fitted over the square drive end. Allowing whatever it was used for up the pipe and out of the square open flanged mouth, or vice versa. Was it a 'faucet' outlet for a water supply point?, maybe used for filling water carts?

 

Because we have a large variety of items inside the structure, we assume it was used as general store of a unit.

We (carefully) suggest that it might have been RE unit since we have a shoulder badge of the Royal Engineers and the large variety might support it.

Oher than what seems to be a stopper for a kitchen faucet (but no faucet remains) we don't have any evidence of water installation or plumbing.

Thank You,

Assaf

 

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18 hours ago, Mark Finneran said:

Item to the right is a MG FEEDBLOCK, And as it was in Israel then must be a vickers!

Mark

Hi Mark,

Thank you for the identification.

I have another group photograph of the items and i hope this angle will help confirming that this is an MG feed block.

If needed i can try and photograph it tomorrow, or in a couple of weeks (i'm out in the field most of the time) or take measurements.

We also had a small amount of German (1 77mm shrapnel shell and a few 7.92mm casings) and Austrian (1 cartridge) ammunition.

I would not rule out MG08, unless the mechanism is different.

DSC_4595.jpg.2c082fd74cb1d47b7d8eb34c07cc8194.jpg

Thank You,

Assaf

 

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8 hours ago, assafx said:

...I would not rule out MG08, unless the mechanism is different...

 

It's not a Vickers feedblock - I'm not quite sure how similar they are, but it's either for a German MG08 or the MG08/15:

German MG feedblock comparison.png

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6 minutes ago, Andrew Upton said:

 

It's not a Vickers feedblock - I'm not quite sure how similar they are, but it's either for a German MG08 or the MG08/15:

German MG feedblock comparison.png

Brilliant!

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On 22/07/2021 at 11:02, assafx said:

DSC_6293.jpg.93a2d9756e98c35f89aaef6ae7025182.jpg

 

 

As promised, this is the back side of this item:

P1010523.jpg.fdbef1ee3919c12ea4c79382c82f3bc3.jpg

does it still fit for an ink well?

Assaf

 

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This is another item.

On first glance it looked like a stopper for a faucet but the threads made us think that it might be something else.

DSC_6250.jpg.cc43e61e5c44eafcaa603578f7e33f0e.jpg

P1010525.jpg.7c0354bd9594595662dc2740e2076902.jpg

 

Thank You,

Assaf

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Great work! Andrew has provided some great pictures but I look forward to the cleaning. You mentioned brass Assam but with corrosion for me the jury is still out!!! 😊.   MG08 in Israel is an interesting story and once cleaned we will know soon enough if WWI MG08 or 08/15 or inter-war onwards, or vickers!

Mark

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Hi Mark,

MG08 in Israel is not that rare. The Ottoman army had a large number of them in service.

Sadly, This item will not be cleaned.

Each rescue excavation has a budget that includes the excavation itself and the work required to publish the excavation report.  

It means: item cleaning, photography, drawing, reports from experts about pottery, glass, bones etc... 

once this is done and we hand out the report, there are external readers, editors and in a few more years the report will be published.

The surprise discovery of the refuse pits and the structure, together with thousands of finds, exceeded the estimated working days of the project by a 400%.

We had to make a few decisions, one of which, regarding metal objects, was to not to clean items made of iron or steel.

These items requires a lot of work and are much more demanding in terms of preservation. By only documenting them, we had enough budget to clean brass, aluminum and other metals that are easier to clean and to preserve.

 

Assaf

 

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On 25/07/2021 at 20:06, assafx said:

This is another item.

On first glance it looked like a stopper for a faucet but the threads made us think that it might be something else.

DSC_6250.jpg.cc43e61e5c44eafcaa603578f7e33f0e.jpg

P1010525.jpg.7c0354bd9594595662dc2740e2076902.jpg

 

Thank You,

Assaf

 

This is not a cap for a faucet. The thread pitch is too fine. Faucet fittings will typically use a thread pitch like BSP (British Standard Pipe). Alternative options are a cap for the top of a fuel can, oil can or fuel reservoir for some type of small engine, or the protective cap for the threaded connection of an instrument. For example the threaded top of a tripod. Just looking at the size, it looks very much like the protective cap for the top of a WW1 period grease cup (machinery fitting to grease or oil a bearing, before more modern grease nipples).

Cheers

Ross

1815773066_greasecupsusedtolubricatepumpbearing.jpg.d85cf0f06519e86977d10fc2b680c64b.jpg

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16 hours ago, Chasemuseum said:

This is not a cap for a faucet. The thread pitch is too fine. Faucet fittings will typically use a thread pitch like BSP (British Standard Pipe). Alternative options are a cap for the top of a fuel can, oil can or fuel reservoir for some type of small engine, or the protective cap for the threaded connection of an instrument. For example the threaded top of a tripod. Just looking at the size, it looks very much like the protective cap for the top of a WW1 period grease cup (machinery fitting to grease or oil a bearing, before more modern grease nipples).

Cheers

Ross

 

Hi Ross,

Considering that we have a spark plug and items that belongs to a motorcycle this is a good option.

Thank you,

Assaf

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