HMS Bulwark - Somaliland campaign involvement?

[SteveE]

I realise that this isn't strictly within the scope of this forum but there is a link, so hopefully the mods will allow, as one of 'my' 25th Royal Fusiliers apparently claimed an African General Service Medal with Somaliland 1902-04 clasp for service on HMS Bulwark.

As far as I can determine, this particular scenario would appear to be unlikely in the extreme, HMS Bulwark isn't listed on the roll of that medal (NA ref. ADM 171/56) or in the London Gazette in 1905 confirming the initial medal award to a number of vessels.  As researching anything Royal Navy is well outside my usual activity I would welcome some 'Naval' expertise confirmation that there isn't something I've overlooked and that this medal may well have been 'self awarded'?  The man in question is Albert Creswell and he served as SS237 (1903-1907) & 238850 (1907-1909). 

A secondary question to the above which may also point in the right direction would be "would the award of any medal be logged in his service sheet?" as those available online do not appear to do so.

Steve

[RNCVR]

Steve, campaign medals would not be recorded on his ADM188 Service sheet(s).  

HMS Bulwark was a London class Battleship & altho flagship of the Mediterranean fleet at the time would not have entered the Red sea & qualified for the AGS medal 1902-04.

This appears to me to be a 'self awarded' medal.

However Horatio may be able to add more than I & he may be along when he picks up on this topic.

[horatio2]

He served in BULWARK as a supernumerary ordinary seaman from  Feb 1904 and was transferred to the ship’s company as an able seaman from Jan 1906 to Feb 1907. That said, I can see nothing in his record or in BULWARK’s movements which would qualify him for that medal. There remains a possibility that he was loaned to a qualifying ship from BULWARK and that the loan has not been recorded on his ADM 188 ledger page. Even that scenario does not explain why his medal is credited to BULWARK. His first ship, HMS FIREQUEEN, did not qualify for the medal. Looks like a try-on.

[SteveE]

@RNCVR @horatio2 Many thanks to you both for a swift response and for confirming my doubts at least..  I haven’t seen the medal in question, only have the description of the details from around the edge, but everything you’ve said makes sense and I’m fairly certain now it was a “self award”.

I will double check all the other ships on the qualifying roll, just to be sure he wasn’t loaned from Bulwark, but I think I know where that will head.

Thanks again

Steve

[RNCVR]

Steve, if you are able to get your hands on the AGS medal try to get a few photos of the naming details on the rim of the medal. 

This will determine if its good or a renamed medal.

Best wishes,

Bryan

[bushfighter]

Steve

Greetings

For what it is worth, in my account of that Expedition:  http://www.kaiserscross.com/188001/428422.html

I made this comment: A Royal Navy Marconi (wireless telegraphy) detachment was deployed inland but was withdrawn after disappointing results. 

Your man may have been a Marconi specialist, or attached to that group.

Royal Navy shore parties ran ports and landing beaches many times in Somaliland, so please don't write off the medal's authenticity just yet.

Harry

[horatio2]

Ord Sea CRESSWELL was a farmer in civilian life and was a seaman rating, not a telegraphist or signaller. So, no WT or Marconi experience and he had only enlisted on 31 December 1903. He was serving in BULWARK (in the Med) from 15 February 1904, at the earliest. Subject to correction, my understanding of the Somaliland 1902-04 operations is that the campaign was wound down by May 1904. That gives window of, at the very most, three months for CRESSWELL to be involved there.

42 minutes ago, bushfighter said:

Royal Navy shore parties ran ports and landing beaches many times in Somaliland

"landing" is the key word here: he had to be landed from an RN ship (clearly not BULWARK) and he does not appear on the medal rolls of ships that qualified for the clasp.

I would love to see an image of the medal and its marking.

[RNCVR]

Qualifying dates for Somaliland 1902-04 clasp --- 18 Jan 1902- 11 May 1904.

14 RN Ships qualified for the clasp.

"Other Naval personnel present - locally recruited crewmen - Seedies & Interpreters"

As both Horatio & I have mentioned the naming is the kicker. If you could obtain photo(s) of the naming that would reveal all.

[SteveE]

Many thanks @RNCVR @bushfighter @horatio2 for all of your follow-ups to my 'issue', they are appreciated. 

If I have been told correctly then the medal is named to "A. Creswell H.M.S. Bulwark. A.B.238850", the later number is another reason for me to question the validity but I've asked for a photo or two of the naming around the medal's rim which hopefully will be forthcoming and help sort this out once and for all.

Steve

[horatio2]

He was transferred from Special Service (SS) seaman (SS.237) to Continuous Service (CS) seaman (238850) in May 2007. Thereafter he never served in a sea-going ship before being invalided in late-1909, And, needless to say, he never served in BULWARK as 238850, so, whoever named the medal, it was done after May 2007 and executed incorrectly. A quick ckeck of the medal roll suggests that the clasps/medals were issued to those qualified around April 1905.

[SteveE]

36 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

He was transferred from Special Service (SS) seaman (SS.237) to Continuous Service (CS) seaman (238850) in May 2007. Thereafter he never served in a sea-going ship before being invalided in late-1909, And, needless to say, he never served in BULWARK as 238850, so, whoever named the medal, it was done after May 2007 and executed incorrectly. A quick ckeck of the medal roll suggests that the clasps/medals were issued to those qualified around April 1905.

Thanks @horatio2 that pretty much tallies with everything that I've surmised from the roll and confirms the numbering 'faux pas' too.  Not having had many dealings with researching the Royal Navy and as he was transferred to Continuous Service, I wasn't completely sure whether the 238850 would have been 'backdated', as it were, to cover his Special Service period but clearly from what you've stated above that wasn't the case.

Thanks again.

Steve

[RNCVR]

RN AGS medals in this timeframe should be named in this sequence -  ON (Official number - usually 5 or 6 digits), Name, Rate, H.M.S. ship.

& the naming should be IMPRESSED, NOT engraved.

[SteveE]

On 20/07/2021 at 17:02, RNCVR said:

RN AGS medals in this timeframe should be named in this sequence -  ON (Official number - usually 5 or 6 digits), Name, Rate, H.M.S. ship.

& the naming should be IMPRESSED, NOT engraved.

Photos of the medal naming have now been received and it appears to have been engraved rather than impressed and the order definitely isn’t in the sequence you’ve stated.  I suspect it’s a ‘self award’.

Steve

[RNCVR]

Yes Steve, medal has been erased, & engraved - self awarded