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alecc

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Hello, everyone! My name is Alex, I am a new one here

Need help to atribute this splendid collection of German & Austro-Hungarian officers with black armbands on this postcard below.

Could it be the funeral of Franz Ferdinand?

Thank you very much!

 

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6 hours ago, alecc said:

Hello, everyone! My name is Alex, I am a new one here

Need help to atribute this splendid collection of German & Austro-Hungarian officers with black armbands on this postcard below.

Could it be the funeral of Franz Ferdinand?

Thank you very much!

 

 

Welcome to the forum Alex.  Looking at the styles and range of uniforms apparent I think it is certainly possible to be the funeral of Franz Ferdinand, but there seem proportionally more German style uniforms than Austrian or Hungarian.  I would have expected to see more Bosnian and Honved style uniforms.  Perhaps forum members @The Prussian , @GreyC and @AOK4can comment?

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Thank you, FROGSMILE! Probably,they are missing in photo because the procession was very long and they didn't fit in the particular part?

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2 minutes ago, alecc said:

Thank you, FROGSMILE! Probably,they are missing in photo because the procession was very long and they didn't fit in the particular part?

That seems a possibility yes, but the real expert opinion will be provided by those I have mentioned.  I’m sure that they’ll be along to comment soon.

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1 minute ago, alecc said:

sorry, but I just noticed Stahlhelms! Soldiers standing on roadside! So it is after 1916...

Yes, I didn’t spot them either.  It could be a funeral for a senior officer then.  I’m sure you will soon get more informed opinion once this thread draws more attention. 

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Hi,

I don´t see a single Austrian uniform BUT the address of the photographer. He is from Stuttgart.

That leads me to the funeral of  Graf Zeppelin on the 12th March 1917 in Stuttgart.

GreyC

Edited by GreyC
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yes, very good tip! I thoght those bicorned hats are Austrian but, obviously, my knowledge here is far inferior than yours! Thanks but how sure you are that it is Zeppelin´s burial?

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5 minutes ago, alecc said:

yes, very good tip! I thoght those bicorned hats are Austrian but, obviously, my knowledge here is far inferior than yours! Thanks but how sure you are that it is Zeppelin´s burial?

Looking at the large numbers of extremely senior officers and officials it's very likely that it is Zeppelin's funeral.  GreyC knows his stuff.

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Thank you Frogsmile,

I hope you are correct:rolleyes:

The ones who were mistaken for Austrians are officals of the royal court of Württemberg. It is clearly a state funeral, later than 1916 (Stahlhelm). If anyone finds another state funeral within the Stuttgart confines during WW1 1916 or later, than your bet is as good as mine.

GreyC

Edited by GreyC
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56 minutes ago, GreyC said:

Hi,

I don´t see a single Austrian uniform BUT the address of the photographer. He is from Stuttgart.

That leads me to the funeral of  Graf Zeppelin on the 12th March 1917 in Stuttgart.

GreyC

I immediately thought of Graf Zeppelin's funeral when I saw the picture.

Jan

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Hold your horses still a bit. It might be the funeral of König Wilhelm II von Württemberg in 1921 as well. I'm checking some things still.

Jan

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I'm not sure but I think the 1921 may be very well possible.

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Begräbnis König Wilhelm I.jpg

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Hi Jan,

interesting. Do you have any reverse sides to make out the studio address?

Pro 1921: the presence of the court officials with mourning band. Not entirely necessary with Zeppelin.

In 1917 and 1920 the studio of the photographer was still at the given address. Unfortunately there is no addressbook for 1921 )online at least), 1922 the address was some place else.

So, as I wrote: Your guess as good as mine.

GreyC

2 minutes ago, alecc said:

name of atelier - Friedrich Clar

Not strange. There are lots of studios not easily accessible on google. Check the addressbooks and you´ll find it.

GreyC

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If there was a formal declaration of “a state of national mourning” for Zeppelin (which should be recorded if it was issued) then that would generate the wearing of mourning bands.  If there was no such declaration for Zeppelin then the Konig of Wurttemberg would seem the more likely candidate of the two.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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12 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

If there was a formal declaration of “a state of national mourning” for Zeppelin (which should be recorded if it was issued) then that would generate the wearing of mourning bands.  If there was no such declaration for Zeppelin then the Konig of Wurttemberg would seem the more likely candidate of the two.

I'm quite sure there was some kind of national mourning for Zeppelin. The man was a hugely important figure. Just comparing the online available pictures, I tend to prefer the King's burial (because of the presence of steel helmets and the uniforms of the men in the funeral procession).

Jan

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6 minutes ago, AOK4 said:

I'm quite sure there was some kind of national mourning for Zeppelin. The man was a hugely important figure. Just comparing the online available pictures, I tend to prefer the King's burial (because of the presence of steel helmets and the uniforms of the men in the funeral procession).

Jan

Yes on balance Wurttemberg does appear more likely.  I thought it was striking that the officer in the bicorne hat and heavily laced tunic in the centre of the newspaper article that you posted above, is dressed identically to several figures seen in the original post.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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just watched Zeppelin funeral video and, yes, there were armbands but, obviously, steal helmets do not appear

but spotted few helmets on Konigs video

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1 hour ago, alecc said:

just watched Zeppelin funeral video and, yes, there were armbands but, obviously, steal helmets do not appear

but spotted few helmets on Konigs video

It seems that by a process of elimination and the excellent contributions of GreyC and Jan your photo now has a likely provenance and context, which is an excellent outcome for such an old and tattered image.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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