39th Brigade or 25th Brigade? RFA or Royal Fusilers?

[Colin M]

My great uncle Alfred Prior Anthony, Gunner 68716, RFA was killed in action on 24th February 1916 in the Maroc Cemetery/Fosse 7 area close to Loos. He arrived in France following mobilisation in August 1914. I have gathered information on his service from the following NA and Ancestry sources:
Register Of Soldiers Effects
Soldiers Died In The Great War
Pension Ledger & Index Card
CWGC Lapugnoy records
These sources all agree that he served in the 46th Battery, RFA.
My understanding is that the 46th Battery, together with the 51st Battery, 54th Battery and a Brigade Ammunition Column formed the 39th Brigade, being part of the 1st Infantry Division. 
The War Diaries of the 39th Brigade, 1st Division for 1914-1916 corroborate this with numerous entries throughout the period for the 46th Battery, including an explicit report of Alfred's death.
However, I am puzzled by some contradictory information that I have also found. A second Pension Ledger & Index Card on Ancestry has all the correct details for Alfred, apart from recording his unit as the Royal Fusilers, and his Medal Rolls Index Card records his unit as 25th Brigade, RFA. I believe the 25th Brigade consisted of the 113, 114 and 115 Batteries and was part of the 1st Infantry Division.
Is it possible these are just clerical or transcription errors and in fact Alfred served, as I believe, in the 46th Battery, 39 Brigade RFA, 1st Division until his death, or is there more to this? 
I'd be most grateful if anyone can comment or shed light on the most probable answer. Thank you.

Colin M

[FROGSMILE]

Colin you may need to check that you are not inadvertently conflating brigade numbering between artillery and infantry brigades.  An artillery brigade was what became an artillery regiment after 1938.  During WW1 within an infantry division there were both infantry and artillery brigades.  I’m not suggesting that’s definitely what you’ve done, as I’ve not examined the details, but it might explain the confusion if there’s a man with perhaps the same name.

Edited 18 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[David Porter]

Colin M,

The Medal Roll Index Card denotes his unit going to France on August 16, 1914. Most other records should give his unit at the date of his death. So in between these dates there was a posting from 25th Brigade RFA to 39th Brigade RFA. Without a service record, or some other evidence, there is no way of knowing exactly when this was.

3 hours ago, Colin M said:

A second Pension Ledger & Index Card on Ancestry has all the correct details for Alfred, apart from recording his unit as the Royal Fusilers

This is an Ancestry transcription error where Royal Fusiliers has been substituted for RFA. There are thousands of them like that, which is infuriating for someone like me who studies RFA records.

[Colin M]

On 18/07/2021 at 10:36, FROGSMILE said:

Colin you may need to check that you are not inadvertently conflating brigade numbering between artillery and infantry brigades.  An artillery brigade was what became an artillery regiment after 1938.  During WW1 within an infantry division there were both infantry and artillery brigades.  I’m not suggesting that’s definitely what you’ve done, as I’ve not examined the details, but it might explain the confusion if there’s a man with perhaps the same name.

I'm a relative novice in these matters, but was beginning to come to the conclusion that an infantry division consisted of both artillery and infantry brigades. So thanks for confirming that for me.

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, Colin M said:

I'm a relative novice in these matters, but was beginning to come to the conclusion that an infantry division consisted of both artillery and infantry brigades. So thanks for confirming that for me.

David has sorted it for you now, I just wanted to make sure you understood the usage of brigade terminology at that time, as it can be confusing for the unfamiliar.  Good luck with your research.

Edited 19 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Colin M]

22 hours ago, David Porter said:

Colin M,

The Medal Roll Index Card denotes his unit going to France on August 16, 1914. Most other records should give his unit at the date of his death. So in between these dates there was a posting from 25th Brigade RFA to 39th Brigade RFA. Without a service record, or some other evidence, there is no way of knowing exactly when this was.

This is an Ancestry transcription error where Royal Fusiliers has been substituted for RFA. There are thousands of them like that, which is infuriating for someone like me who studies RFA records.

Thanks David. On the assumption that his medal card is correct I will continue to search for evidence of Alfred's earlier service in the 25th Brigade. As the 25th and 39th Brigades were part of the 1st Division it seems quite probable he was posted from the 25th to the 39th. I'll check the 25th's war diaries for more evidence, although I doubt he will be explicitly named due to his lowly rank. Knowing to within a few days when he left for France I might be able to match that to an embarkation date for the 25th Brigade. Thanks also for suggesting that his attachment to the Royal Fusilers is probably an error. Always nice to have a steer from an experienced member - much appreciated!

 

Colin M.

[Colin M]

23 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

David has sorted it for you now, I just wanted to make sure you understood the usage of brigade terminology at that time, as it can be confusing for the unfamiliar.  Good luck with your research.

Thank you! I'm learning all the while, and the GWF community has been a huge help over the past year or so with my research into my relatives in the RGA and RFA.

[MaxD]

On 18/07/2021 at 14:25, David Porter said:

The Medal Roll Index Card denotes his unit going to France on August 16, 1914.

David has given you the date of arrival in France of 25 Brigade, 16 August 1914..  Of interest is that the 1st Division HQRA diary says 16 August, the battery diary says 18th August.

 

MaxD

[Colin M]

On 19/07/2021 at 14:46, MaxD said:

David has given you the date of arrival in France of 25 Brigade, 16 August 1914..  Of interest is that the 1st Division HQRA diary says 16 August, the battery diary says 18th August.

 

MaxD

Thanks Max for the comment. On the assumption that Alfred's service began in the 25th Brigade I have searched its war diaries and found that the brigade left Deepcut on 17th August, embarking on SS Victorian at Southampton and arrived in Le Havre on 18th August.  Alfred's medal card has a Qualifying Date of 16th August, so a difference of 2 days, but close enough for my satisfaction as a date of his arrival in France.

Colin M.

[David Porter]

Some details of men in 39th Brigade RFA have come to light. Gunner Anthony was awarded 7 days Field Punishment 2 for being absent from 46th Battery from 2 pm July 3, 1915 to 5:30 am July 4, 1915. He also forfeited 2 days pay. So he was in 46th Battery for at least 7 months.

[Colin M]

Thank you David for this extra information, which is a great help in narrowing down how long Alfred was in the 46th Battery. If I might ask, where did this information come from?  

Colin M.

 

[David Porter]

22 minutes ago, Colin M said:

where did this information come from?

Found it here https://www.theogilbymuster.com/record/3960545