SusanN Posted 17 July , 2021 Share Posted 17 July , 2021 This photo is now in my grandfathers album, though at the time it was taken he was still interned in Ruhleben, so it was probably taken by my great aunt Mary who later worked with the British Army on the Rhine, I am not sure if there are guns in the background to the left ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 17 July , 2021 Share Posted 17 July , 2021 (edited) Yes they are “piled rifles” (a method of stacking rifles upright so that they stay out of the dirt but can be grabbed quickly). Basically they were hooked together a few cm/inches below the muzzle. Older style rifles were often fitted with a “piling swivel” to facilitate this. When soldiers are permitted to step away from formation to eat or momentarily relax then their rifles were usually piled. Edited 18 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWK Posted 18 July , 2021 Share Posted 18 July , 2021 "Piling" up close (IR 16 in 1914): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SusanN Posted 18 July , 2021 Author Share Posted 18 July , 2021 Thanks Frogsmile and JWK for you replies, that makes sense now for the rifles to be piled, I am sure it was a long slow German retreat and would have taken quite some time. the 1940s photos below show the house in Bonn where the photo was taken, the whole street was bombed in WW2 but my great grandfathers house was spared … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 July , 2021 Share Posted 18 July , 2021 (edited) I wonder if the house still stands. I always liked how German houses have large usable spaces in basements and attics and admired the solidity of their construction when I lived in them intermittently over two decades (not that I ever lived in anything so grand as your forebear’s house!). Afternote: Interestingly, in your photo at the centre I think you can see some of the men in a posture of eating from mess tins, and just beyond them the smoke/steam of a goulash kanone (field kitchen). Thus it is probably an organised way station along a route of retreat. Edited 18 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie2 Posted 18 July , 2021 Share Posted 18 July , 2021 50 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: I wonder if the house still stands. Possibly the righthand house which has been spoiled „modernised“ https://www.kuladig.de/Objektansicht/O-29741-20120109-2 The balcony on the lefthand house matches that on the original photo. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 July , 2021 Share Posted 18 July , 2021 Just now, charlie2 said: Possibly the righthand house which has been spoiled „modernised“ https://www.kuladig.de/Objektansicht/O-29741-20120109-2 The balcony on the lefthand house matches that on the original photo. Charlie Yes it does look very similar Charlie. There’s something curiously reassuring that there are survivors from such terrible times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SusanN Posted 18 July , 2021 Author Share Posted 18 July , 2021 Here is the house today, it’s number 32A, apparently the cherry tree in the garden was still there when my grandfather had a return visit after ww2…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 18 July , 2021 Share Posted 18 July , 2021 (edited) https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@50.730669,7.0934509,3a,75y,343.07h,108.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smorqhyXicUtA08gbMCzUrg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 Edited 18 July , 2021 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SusanN Posted 18 July , 2021 Author Share Posted 18 July , 2021 Thanks for the contributions, I have a very precious photo of my great aunt Mary leaving the house to be married to Captain Richard Frederick David Bruce of the Black Watch and Army of the Rhine in 1919, she was accompanied by a Captain Samuel but I am not sure who he was…? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie2 Posted 18 July , 2021 Share Posted 18 July , 2021 19 minutes ago, SusanN said: Here is the house today, it’s number 32A, apparently the cherry tree in the garden was still there when my grandfather had a return visit after ww2…. Good to see the facade hasn‘t been rendered like the one in my previous post. Shame about the added on Penthouse and that the windows haven‘t retained their original sizes. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 July , 2021 Share Posted 18 July , 2021 (edited) 48 minutes ago, SusanN said: Thanks for the contributions, I have a very precious photo of my great aunt Mary leaving the house to be married to Captain Richard Frederick David Bruce of the Black Watch and Army of the Rhine in 1919, she was accompanied by a Captain Samuel but I am not sure who he was…? Captain Samuel appears to me to be quite old for his rank, Susan, which suggests he was either, a ex ranker, or a former civilian with a wartime temporary commission. I wonder if he might be a German Jew who was perhaps bilingual and with other skills that made him useful for the Rhine Occupation administration. One can imagine him as a German speaker being a safe pair of hands sent to collect the bride from an Anglo-German household. All mere conjecture of course. Edited 18 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SusanN Posted 18 July , 2021 Author Share Posted 18 July , 2021 Hello Frogsmile, I have another 1919 British Army of the Rhine photo …of Captain Samuel , known as Sammy sitting down, Captain Richard Bruce known as Dick to his left….not sure what is going on though…? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 July , 2021 Share Posted 18 July , 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, SusanN said: Hello Frogsmile, I have another 1919 British Army of the Rhine photo …of Captain Samuel , known as Sammy sitting down, Captain Richard Bruce known as Dick to his left….not sure what is going on though…? If it’s Sammy sat at the desk then he is the Assistant Provost Marshal (APM) that we discussed earlier in the other thread. You can see the arm band/brassard mentioned on his right upper arm. If Dick is his subordinate then he was probably the Deputy Assistant Provost Marshall (DAPM). That fits with the captain and lieutenant rank differential. As to the scene on view, my guess is that it relates to an executive board meeting for those responsible for maintaining order within the British administered area concerned. Those on the left are from the occupying force and on the right are perhaps the representative heads of the German police, or military, and the German civil authorities (the Kommissar) within the area. However, that’s just conjecture and my interpretation of what I can see. Edited 18 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interested Posted 18 July , 2021 Share Posted 18 July , 2021 I'd think the first photo you posted is unique, thanks for letting us see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 18 July , 2021 Share Posted 18 July , 2021 20 hours ago, SusanN said: This photo is now in my grandfathers album, though at the time it was taken he was still interned in Ruhleben, so it was probably taken by my great aunt Mary who later worked with the British Army on the Rhine, I am not sure if there are guns in the background to the left ? That is an amazing photo. The fact it's taken from a house gives added poignancy. If your Great Aunt had leaned out of the window for a clearer shot it would have removed the context and the image wouldn't have as much impact. Wow. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SusanN Posted 18 July , 2021 Author Share Posted 18 July , 2021 Thanks Dave for your appreciation. I feel as though I am in the house looking out of that window myself when I look at the photo, I am grateful it survived to this day, it’s amazing being over 100 years old. What an event to witness from your front room..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 19 July , 2021 Share Posted 19 July , 2021 Richard Frederick David Bruce was a Black Watch Territorial officer. From Officers of The Black Watch Voulume II: " BRUCE, R.F.D. (T.F.); 5th Angus and Dundee Bn; 2/Lieut 28/12/11; Lieut 26/7/13: wounded 9/5/15; Capt 1/6/16; To 9th Bn 30/6/16; To 4th/5th Bn 28/10/18; served in 4th/5th after 1914-18 War; Bt. Maj. 9/1/26." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 19 July , 2021 Share Posted 19 July , 2021 32 minutes ago, gordon92 said: Richard Frederick David Bruce was a Black Watch Territorial officer. From Officers of The Black Watch Voulume II: " BRUCE, R.F.D. (T.F.); 5th Angus and Dundee Bn; 2/Lieut 28/12/11; Lieut 26/7/13: wounded 9/5/15; Capt 1/6/16; To 9th Bn 30/6/16; To 4th/5th Bn 28/10/18; served in 4th/5th after 1914-18 War; Bt. Maj. 9/1/26." There are a couple of threads on this man by the same OP that I don’t think you have seen. You will see some more images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 20 July , 2021 Share Posted 20 July , 2021 Thanks for letting me know. I will try to locate those threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofatfortakeoff Posted 20 July , 2021 Share Posted 20 July , 2021 Whata a beautiful family history, many thanls for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 July , 2021 Share Posted 20 July , 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, gordon92 said: Thanks for letting me know. I will try to locate those threads Here: 1. https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/292003-black-watch-…richard-f-d-bruce-191219161919-photos/?tab=comments#comment-3031242 2. https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/291610-british-intelligence-operators-1919-cologne-and-bonn/?tab=comments#comment-3026844 Edited 20 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SusanN Posted 20 July , 2021 Author Share Posted 20 July , 2021 Hello Frogsmile, just re read your comments about the photo out of the window of the German retreat, about the field kitchen, so I had a good look under a magnifying light which shows up much clearer detail and I believe you are right, well spotted, I always assumed the retreat was in motion, but they are obviously stopped , which is why the rifles are piled…not sure how you would know whose rifle is whose if you were in a rush to get them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 July , 2021 Share Posted 20 July , 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, SusanN said: Hello Frogsmile, just re read your comments about the photo out of the window of the German retreat, about the field kitchen, so I had a good look under a magnifying light which shows up much clearer detail and I believe you are right, well spotted, I always assumed the retreat was in motion, but they are obviously stopped , which is why the rifles are piled…not sure how you would know whose rifle is whose if you were in a rush to get them ? Yes if you look to the left side of the photo in the background men can be seen seated on a wall and I think they’re eating too. The men usually piled their rifles by half sections (3 or 4 rifles depending on unit strength) and they would take note of which was their pile. Within the pile each man knew his rifle by its idiosyncrasies. It’s hard to explain for someone who’s not been an infantryman and spent lengthy periods with their rifle, but for weapons with wooden furniture you get to know every scratch, indentation and colouration in the wood of the stock and butt and recognise your rifle like an old friend. I distinctly recall how after 10-years I had to get used to the new plasticised furniture that replaced the wood and which was less susceptible to such character marks. At that point soldiers added tape, or coloured paint marks. During the two world wars (and until the plastic) the wooden furniture on rifles was just like a familiar face. Edited 20 July , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon92 Posted 20 July , 2021 Share Posted 20 July , 2021 14 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: Here: 1. https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/292003-black-watch-…richard-f-d-bruce-191219161919-photos/?tab=comments#comment-3031242 2. https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/291610-british-intelligence-operators-1919-cologne-and-bonn/?tab=comments#comment-3026844 Appreciate the pointers. All very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now