Turkish MIAMIA'S positions

[Jeff Pickerd]

From the release of “THE ARTILLERY AT ANZAC, Adaptation, Innovation and Education” by Chris Roberts and Paul Stevens, it is found that on the 17^th May, 1915, the four 18 Pounder QF guns of the 1^st NZFA Battery were emplaced in a concealed position on Russell’s Top, with arcs of fire onto the Turkish positions on the 400 plateau (photograph page 70, AWM P01155.003).

On the 3^th August, Major Symon’s 1^st NZFA Battery was assigned to cut the Turkish barbed wire entanglements at Lone Pine, Johnston’s Jolly and German Officers’ Trench over four days, by the fire from one gun. At 1500 hours of the 6^th all entanglements were satisfactorily destroyed. The battery then switched to supporting the infantry advance on Lone Pine. The 1^st NZFA Brigade War Diaries of August 1915 (AWM4 35/7/2)

That brings the story to the 7^th August (page 4 of the War Diary), where the first reference to the MIAMIA’S is found, 0600 hours, “Turks made a counter attack from the direction of west MIAMIA’S.” there are ongoing references to South, South West direction of MIAMIA/S, No 4 & No 9 MIAMIA, through the diary up until the 23^rd August (Page 16).

Mia Mia is an Australian Aboriginal word for a hut or shelter, which brings up the questions of - did the word have use in New Zealand prior to the Gallipoli campaign, if so, what was it referring to, and, why is it only to be found in use in the 1^st NZFA Brigade War Diary?

Has anyone come across the use MIAMIA in any other Gallipoli documents/maps, or an indication as to just what they were, and where it/they were on the 400 Plateau, or surrounds? There is a clue from the diary on the 7^th August: “1108 – Johnston’s Jolly and Owen’s Gully, 1^st Battery did this at intervals ceasing at 1145. Great damage was done to a new Turkish work on the crest SW of MIAMIA’S.”

 

Jeff

[Guest]

Mate,

 

No I can't find any mention of it?

While Native words (Aborgorial and Maori) are used by us and the Kiwis on Anzac, I have not seen Mia Mia before?

 

SB

[alantwo]

Jeff

Maimais are mentioned a few times in the New Zealand Divisional Artillery reports, within the Headquarters, New Zealand and Australian Divisional Artillery War Diaries AWM4-13/15/4 and /5. The reports record events the previous day within the Southern Section and Maimais are first noted on 19th August, ending on 30th September. I'm not sure if the entries will shed too much additional light on the locations, because some of the text, particularly towards the end of September, is identical to that in the New Zealand 1st Field Artillery Brigade War Diary. There are appendices for both months which I haven't gone through which may be worth checking.

Kind regards

Alan

Edited 16 July , 2021 by alantwo

[Jeff Pickerd]

Steve, Jay & Alan, thanks for your replies.

Alan, I have gone over what diaries the AWM have, including the appendices, and as you note, there a number of references to the Mia Mia’s. Chris Roberts and Paul Stevens book has been of assistance to the position of the 1st NZFA Bde on Russell’s Top, but again another position that cannot as yet be definitely identified.

From the 1st NZFA Bde diary of the 6th August, it mentions that “Major McGilp to control fire from Major Brown’s station where he will meet Gen Hobbs.” The station was Major Bessel-Brown’s 8th AFA Battery at the Pimple where McGilp would meet General Talbot Hobbs, CRA 1st Aust Div. I would surmise that Major McGilp was the FOO for the 1st NZFA Battery. If the FOO was observing and directing the fire of A gun up on Russell’s Top from the Pimple, the Mia Mia’s must have been a visible feature over Lone Pine from that position, all nine of them. The question still remains, just what were they, and where were they?

Another document from the 1st NZFA Bde War dairy of the 12th August states: “10 rounds H.E. Dispersed enemy working in rear of No. 4 Mia Mia. Turks C.T.W. (Presume that stands for communication trench West) of Mia Mia were dispersed also.” It must have been somewhere beyond Owen’s Gully.

Jeff

[frev]

Jeff – can’t say I’ve come across the term either, and on some quick scans can’t find it mentioned in any of my books on the NZ forces.

 

Whoever ‘described’ this photo at the AWM believes mia mia refers to their dugouts/huts (possibly a guess, coming from an Australian perspective?):

 

Description

Lieutenant Colonel Arthur Bauchop CMG, Commanding Officer of the Otago Mounted Rifles, New Zealand Expeditionary Force (NZEF) in front of his mia mia (dugout), near No. 2 Outpost, and who was wounded leading a charge on 7 August 1915 and died of his wounds on 10 August 1915. The hut is partly constructed from the oars from the boats of the 7th Battalion, stranded opposite site of No. 2 Outpost on 25 April 1915, most of their occupants having been killed during the landing.

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/A02031

 

 

However it seems the term was used in NZ as both Miamia or Maimai – and apparently refers to a blind or hide used for wildfowl hunting… so possibly referring to some form of ‘concealed positions’.

 

Now, you know that understanding battles and the terrain are not my thing, even though we walked the area years ago and you and everyone else probably explained it to me ad nauseam – but I was just wondering if as the term is not mentioned until the August offensive – it perhaps might have something to do with the ‘concealed exits’ at the end of the tunnels that had been dug out under no-man’s-land for dispersing the troops in the attack…

That being totally on the wrong track, other possibilities…concealed gun emplacements, sniper’s nests….

 

Someone is sure to know!

Cheers, Frev

[Jeff Pickerd]

Thanks Frev,

You have probably now confirmed that Mia Mia or more likely Mai  Mai was in use in New Zealand before Gallipoli, with its meaning to describe some form of shelter or hide used by the Maori and New Zealanders.

As to whether the term was used prior to the August campaign I cannot say, as I have not had access to any other NZ dairies than those on the AWM. With out some form of confirmation we can only second guess as to what they were, and just where they were. A very cursory look through Christopher Pusley’s, “Gallipoli, the New Zealand Story” seems she’d no light  on the term Mia Mia up to and during August.

What ever the MiaMia’s were, they were obviously a well recognised feature to the gunners of the 1st NZFA, and presumably in place well before the capture of the Turkish positions at Lone Pine.

[Jeff Pickerd]

I suspect that I may have found the answer to my questions, by doing what I should have done in the first place. This is of course speculation on my behalf, but the following seems to be the only features around Lone Pine/Owen’s Gully that would seem to fit the bill.

By consulting The Official History of Australia in the War of 1914-1918, Volume II, The Story of Anzac: Chapter XIX, page 535 through to 566, there are numerous sketch maps depicting the Turkish trenches at Lone Pine, all of which show the Turkish bivouacs on the North face of The Cup. The two aerial photographs of Lone Pine from page 563, the first being from 20^th June, second September 1915, and the sketch maps on the opposite page identifying the features of each photo, give a clearer indication to the position of the bivouacs. Lastly Map No. 14, opposite page 566, “Lone Pine After The Battle of 6^th-10^th August. 1915” clearly sets out the bivouac positions rising up the North face from the floor of The Cup to contour 120, 18 in all of varying size.

If these bivouacs were covered with branches in a similar manner as shown in the photograph (Defending Gallipoli, The Turkish Story, Harvey Broadbent, page 178,TGS Archives) of the shelter behind Esat Pasha and his staff at III Corps Field HQ on Srubby Knoll (Kemalyeri), then as the 1^st NZFA Bde have recorded, MIA MIA would be a fair description of them. Such a position would also seem to fit a number of targets fired on by the guns of No.1 NZFA, such as the digging of new communication trenches and descriptions of W and SW below the crest of the cliff.

What cannot be determined is just how much of these shelters in The Cup the FOO of the 1st NZFA in captured front line trenches could have seen, and how much of them would have been visible from Russell’s Top, not all of them would have been able to be seen from either position. I would presume it was still too early in the campaign for the aerial photographs to have been made available to the forward gun sites, so their location must been made by observation from Russell’s Top.

 

Jeff

[frev]

Jeff - I too moved on from my ridiculous fixation on the coincidence of your 9 miamia's having a connection to the 9 tunnels leading up to the Turkish trenches, and returned to what I understand - follow the human element.  So I went in search of your Major Gilp...

....and struck it lucky - finding his personal war diary which you'll find in the following link:

https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE3279663&dps_custom_att_1=emu

If you go to MSX-8786_29.TIF you'll find his sketch map showing 4 mai mai's - and MSX-8786_27.TIF will give you a sketch which also includes the 4 mai mai's.

Also had a scan through, and although lots of detail didn't actually come across any mention of 9 mai mai's?

 

Cheers, Frev

[Jeff Pickerd]

Many thanks Frev, a fantastic find. I will now go through Gilp’s Diary more thoroughly, as he seems to have a lot of map references, these I shall check against the Gallipoli maps I have.

Again, well done.

 

Jeff

[Jeff Pickerd]

The perusal of Major Clyde McGilp’s dairy has to certain extent answered a number of my questions, and some that I had not thought to have sought an answer to, again I am indebted to you Frev for the reference. It has also added greatly to expanding the story of the artillery as I have worked my way through Chris Roberts and Paul Stevens magnificent book, “The Artillery At Anzac”, as Major-General Steve Gower AO succinctly puts it in his forward, “It may have taken a hundred years, but this book represents an important account of a hitherto neglected aspect of the campaign: fire support”.

For a start, it turns out that Major McGilp was the CO of the 1^st NZFA Battery on Russell’s Top, having taken over command on the 20^th July, vice Major Frank Symon, promoted to Lt Col, CO 1^st NZFA Brigade. According to the War Dairy of the Headquarters New Zealand Mounted Rifles Brigade, the battery moved up into position on Russell’s Top on the night of 16^th May, beginning at 8.30 pm with two guns being emplaced later during the night, page 6. By the 17^th all four gun were in position under the command of Major Frank Symon.

According to the 1^st NZFA Bde War Diary, for the destruction of the Turkish barbed wire entanglements at Lone Pine from the 3^rd to the 6^th August, this was undertaken by No. 1 (A) gun that fired 17 rounds of shrapnel until it was temporarily put out of action by Turkish bombardment at 0730 hours on the 5^th (damage to the guns buffer and out of action for about half an hour). No. 2 (B) gun took over the fire on the entanglements at 0920 hours, firing 84 rounds of shrapnel. On the 6^th the 1^st NZFA Battery firing 227 rounds from guns 1 and 2 between 0845 and 1500 hours destroyed all the entanglements. From 1630 hours the battery fired in support of the advance on Lone Pine, firing on Turkish guns on Gun Ridge and infantry massing behind Johnston’s Jolly for a counter attack.

The diary also states that Col Symon and Major McGilp attended a conference of the 1^st Bde Battery Co’s and Adjutants in Reserve Gully at 1430 hours on the 5^th August, here the orders for the continuation of the battery’s fire were reissued. On the 6^th the battery was ordered to continue firing on the entanglements from 0830, with Major McGilp controlling the fire from Major Brown’s station (Major Alfred Bessell-Browne, 8^th AFA, observation post at The Pimple), where he would meet General Talbot-Hobbs, CO 1^st Australian Divisional Artillery. From Major Clyde McGilp’s diary, he and Sgt W. J. Hicks No. 597 were the forward observation officers (FOO) in the 8^th Batteries station (photograph MSX-8786_24.tif).

All of that has a bearing to the question of the Turkish Mia Mia’s, for it is from McGilp’s diary that the evidence of where they were can be found, and is shown by the two sketches, MSX-8786_25 & 27, plus his sketch map MSX-8786_29. Here McGilp places the four Mia Mia’s South of Owen’s Gully, presumably along the Northern crest of the Cup. My earlier assumption that the bivouacs outlined from Map No. 14, page 566, of the Australian Official History, could well have been the case to their identity. McGilp indicates the existence of four Mia Mia’s within the text of his diary, as does the 1^st NZFA Bde War Diary.

But further to that, another earlier mention of the Mia Mia’s , and a specific location is reveled from the sketch map found in the Headquarters 1^st Australian Divisional Artillery War Diary, Part 1 – May 1915, page 79, “Map of the Situation, 1^st Aust Div, 25.5.15”. Here the four Mia Mia’s are depicted on the Northern slope of Johnston’s Jolly above Wire Gully, East of Scott’s Point; the only problem with this location would have been to their visibility from the observation station at the Pimple, as would Major McGilp’s sketches indicate. All still a little confusing.

On the 10th August 2015 I attempted to see if I could locate the 1st NZFA Battery gun emplacement, having at that time no idea as to just what it would look like, or where on the Western end of Russell’s Top it would be, only that it faced the 400 plateau over looking Monash Gully. The undergrowth is now so thick it is almost impossible to make out any possible features, it also being so hard going I gave up bush bashing and turned my attention to trying to find evidence of the Main Street trench. It struck me at that time that I had possibly walked over the gun site back in 2007 when making my way to go down Reserve Gully, the scrub being far less thick back then, but at that time my interest was entirely directed to the activities of the 3rd Light Horse Brigade. The very faded photographs from his diary at MSX-8786_74 & 75 do show the existence of four camouflaged gun emplacements on Russell’s Top, two of which are of the last gun in action before evacuation on the 19th December, 1915. Again another reference I should have consulted prior to raising this topic is to be found in Volume II, Australian Official History, page 75, Map No. 3, “Positions of the Anzac Artillery at the end of May, 1915”. Here the position of the four 1st NZFA Battery are set out along Russell’s Top facing the South, two guns on the 140 contour, two guns along the 130 contour. As to which of the guns was A,B,C, or D, is still open to question. It would appear that the last gun to fire from Russell’s Top was the one in the line on the 140 contour towards the Turkish lines at The Nek, but as to whether it was the first (A) or last (D) is not known. As to where Lt Peter Rigby Wightman, No. 8398, “E” Coy, 18th AFA Battery, the cartographer for many of the histories maps, found this information is unknown. He did not serve on Gallipoli, arriving in Egypt earlier in December, so all of his Gallipoli maps must have been drawn from official references, but as to just what those sources were, and to where they were found is not stated. After having worked my way through a number of relevant diaries I am yet to find a definitive map that gives the battery’s actual location.

The one thing I have found to be astonishing, is the complete lack of reference to the infantry on Russell’s Top within the 1st NZFA Bde War Diary, and McGilp’s Diary; particularly to the charge at The Nek, 7th August, and conversely, the total lack of mention of the four guns of the 1st NZFA Battery by any member of the 8th, 9th & 10th LH Regiments, the 3rd LH Bde, and associated units; no mention of having seen their emplacements, coming into contact with any of the gunners, or hearing them firing, very strange. It is almost like they were all in two different worlds.

 

Jeff

[Jeff Pickerd]

The position of the four 18 pounder guns of the NZFA Battery on Russell’s Top has now been confirmed as that as shown on the Aust Official History Map No. 3, as previously mentioned.

The confirmation has been discovered by Alan Two, who has used a brilliant piece of detective work by looking outside the square, and gone to the Turkish sources by looking at the Sevki Pasa maps, and in particular the map 17 (\V) Anzac. Here on this map are the four NZ gun emplacements just as Lt Wightman has depicted them on his map No. 3. Further to that important point there is also shown on the Sevki Pasa map two more gun emplacements further along Russell’s Top just a little up from the four gun sites, both ranging out to the North over Walker’s Ridge.

Major McGilp confirms that there were two 18 pounders moved to fire on Chanuk Bair and Rhododendron Spur in his diary (page MSX-8786_38, 39, 40, 41, & 42), and the 1^st NZFA Brigade War Diary also notes the fire of the 1et NZFA Battery on these targets from the 9^th August. Lt Turner went out to No. 2 Outpost early morning of the 9^th to observe the fire on the Turkish positions on the Northern slopes of Chanuk Bair by ‘D’ Gun from its new emplacement. On the 10^th August (MSX-8786_39) Lt Turner moved up onto Walker’s Ridge to direct the fire of ‘D’ gun from before 1200 hours onto the Southern slopes and summit of Chanuk Bair. On the 11^th Lt Turner reported that ‘D’ gun had fired 170 rounds of T.S. & H.E. on the South slope of Rhododendron Ridge & Chauk Bair, and on Point 161. (MSX-8786_40) At 1643 hours Lt Turner L.F.O. reported having fired 60 shrapnel and 70 H.E during the day, mostly at Rhodo Spur and in the gullies on the South slope. 15^th August, (MSX-8786_42) ‘C’ gun, Left Section, was put into (new) emplacement in the morning and directed to fire on Chanuk Bair and Rhodo Spur, doing so during the day.

There is still unfortunately the question of which guns were where, since they are referenced as either gun 1,2,3,or4, or A.B.C.D. it can only be confirmed that guns ‘C’ & ‘D’ were placed in the two new emplacements, but where were those guns drawn from out of the four original emplacements? This is a question that I suspect there will never be an answer to.

I am in awe Alan’s ability to overlay the Sevki Pasa map onto Google Earth, and with his kind permission, post two of the overlays that show the six gun sites on Russell’s Top.

Jeff

[Guest]

On 16/07/2021 at 00:30, Jeff Pickerd said:

Has anyone come across the use MIAMIA in any other Gallipoli documents/maps, or an indication as to just what they were, and where it/they were on the 400 Plateau, or surrounds? 

 

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

While researching Beachy Bill (for myself, in relation to Turkish artillery fire directed at the beaches during Oct 1915) and the anti aircraft defences at Anzac (for B3rn), I've discovered the following reference to "Mia Mia" in the 1st Australian Field Artillery Brigade Headquarters, War Diary, October 1915, item no. 13/29/11, Accession number: RCDIG1016281.  

I'm a bit late to your party, but I thought the entry may still interest you.   It may provide a clue, in that you may wish to identify the commander of either the 1st FAB or 3rd Battery and determine if you have their personal accounts of the war.  Reference may have been made to the positions they took over from the Kiwis.

Or I may be barking up the wrong tree?

As they say, every little bit helps. Or not.

Kia Kaha,

Jay.

may

 

Edited 18 August , 2021 by Guest
Fixing a grammatical error.

[Jeff Pickerd]

16 hours ago, jay26thBn said:

Hi Jeff,

While researching Beachy Bill (for myself, in relation to Turkish artillery fire directed at the beaches during Oct 1915) and the anti aircraft defences at Anzac (for B3rn), I've discovered the following reference to "Mia Mia" in the 1st Australian Field Artillery Brigade Headquarters, War Diary, October 1915, item no. 13/29/11, Accession number: RCDIG1016281.  

I'm a bit late to your party, but I thought the entry may still interest you.   It may provide a clue, in that you may wish to identify the commander of either the 1st FAB or 3rd Battery and determine if you have their personal accounts of the war.  Reference may have been made to the positions they took over from the Kiwis.

Or I may be barking up the wrong tree?

As they say, every little bit helps. Or not.

Kia Kaha,

Jay.

may

 

Thanks Jay,

Looking at the Artillery involvement at Gallipoli has been a study that I had not undertaken in any depth prior to reading the book by Chris Roberts and Paul Stevens book on the subject, and even now there is a great deal I am yet to come to grips with. Your reference to the 1st Australian Field Artillery Brigade War diary has revealed a fact that I had not gleamed from the book, that being the placement of the 3rd Battery guns on Russell’s Top in what appears to be the same area as that of the 1st NZFA Battery on the 5th October. This will now lead to further investigation, and also reveals that the Mia Mia’s were still a subject of targeting from the gun pits on Russell’s Top when one would have assumed that by October these emplacements would have been knocked out by then.

cheers, Jeff

[Crunchy]

Jeff,

Regarding the positioning of the 3rd AFA Battery on Russell's Top see page 209 - a section of the battery replaced a section of 1st NZFA Battery there in early October, and page 213 - under the new arrangements established by Hobbs on 7 November with the 3rd AFA Battery being fully deployed on Russell's Top. A section of 1st NZFA Battery remained on the Top.

 

Cheers

Chris

[Jeff Pickerd]

Thank you Chris,

I will now follow the the Endnotes references from your Chapter Nine, and go through the war diaries of the various Brigades and Batteries to follow the restructure arrangements for the guns up on Walker’s Ridge/Russell’s Top.

It is also time that I started a new topic with regard to those arrangements, as this thread is moving well beyond its original question, re the Mia Mia’s. I must also thank both you and Paul for the remarkable work the two of you have done with researching and writing “The Artillery At Anzac”, it has led me into an area of research that I have had scant knowledge of prior to this.

cheers,

Jeff

[michaeldr]

On 15/07/2021 at 15:30, Jeff Pickerd said:

Has anyone come across the use MIAMIA in any other Gallipoli documents/maps

Jeff,

I don't know if this subject is still 'live' with you, but in any case you can add this panorama to your collection. It's from the IWM/WFA map disc where you will find it under ref. M_012481

 

regards

Michael

[Jeff Pickerd]

Thanks Michael, much appreciated, and apologies for the delay in replying due a technical problem that had my reply’s failing to be posted.

I did not have this map, and it is of relevance to the Mia Mia topic, as it matches up with Major McGilp’s sketches and maps. The panorama is also a great visual guide to seeing the targeting and ranging of the 1st NZFA Battery on Russell’s Top, as the 10th LH Regt MG Section was positioned on the cliff edge below McGilp’s number  2 & 3, 18 pounders. The 8th LH Machine Gun Section, further along Russell’s Top, puts the range out to the Mia Mia’s at approx. 1700 yards.

The amalgamated machine guns of Sections No. 3 & 4 deserve a topic all of there own.

Jeff

[Jeff Pickerd]

While searching the AWM War Diaries of the Headquarters 1st Australian Division Artillery, found this map, titled "Map of the Situation 1st Australian Division, 25-5-1915, Appendix 19.

Here the position of the four Turkish Mia Mia's is at last clearly set out as the Southern slope of The Cup, Owen's Gully.

 

Jeff