hypo hood

[Stereoview Paul]

Already obsolete by the time Girdwood was taking his images, these hoods were now being used on the training ground to give the infantry an idea of operating wearing a gas mask.

[Lammy]

Yes I know these images of Indian troops.

[trenchtrotter]

Glad this all got sorted. However I have seen this time and again. A person buys an item clearly suspect. Repro / fake or altered. They want item to be right so ask and get opinions that are not necessarily what they want t to read. So theory after theory are put forward to placate their own doubts / others comments. It’s something I’ve done and most collectors of new to game or buying something out of their comfort zone. If you have a doubt and apply theories you will never be happy with said item

[Lammy]

Nothing wrong with theories or asking questions. WW1 being a newish area for me, having spent most of my life collecting third reich memorabilia. Helmets are my strong points , both ww1 and ww2. So coming across something rare or desirable , will lead to questions being asked , and theories being developed. Have had a few nice finds of the years , but also had my fingers burnt. It is all part of the learning process , that I would not be without today. 

My only flaw would be , not sticking with one subject. E.g. buttons , or just badges.

I collect it all , and I seem to be getting worse. But I enjoy the reading and new learning.

[wainfleet]

If I decided to start collecting items priced in 3 or 4 figures I'd make sure I became an "expert" PDQ, especially in a field as much faked as this one. Time and again I see obvious, and not so obvious, fakes being sold for sizeable sums and wonder who bought them and why didn't they do their research. Whilst it's not possible to know everything, it is possible to learn quite a lot in a short space of time and that's often enough to detect a fake. It's a simple matter to do an image search for the item in question and compare museum examples with those on sale; combine the search term with the words fake, repro etc; type in the name of a suspect dealer with the words fake, crook, etc. We're not allowed to publicly expose fakers on this forum for legal reasons but the information is out there just the same and it's not that hard to find with a bit of determination and ingenuity.

These are pretty basic precautions. An hour spent searching is surely well worth the effort in time, hassle and possibly money saved in the avoidance of a duff purchase.

[Grovetown]

21 hours ago, wainfleet said:

If I decided to start collecting items priced in 3 or 4 figures I'd make sure I became an "expert" PDQ, especially in a field as much faked as this one. Time and again I see obvious, and not so obvious, fakes being sold for sizeable sums and wonder who bought them and why didn't they do their research.

Good post.

This mirrors what the late Michael Baldwin - author of the Feldzug series - used to say about collectors who complained about the price of books, like the Feldzug series**.

That they would baulk at paying £40 - £50 for a highly valuable research and knowledge tool, while happily, literally, gambling to the tune of hundreds or even thousands of pounds on spurious items from bent or stupid dealers for reasons of bare optimism and little else.

Sadly, there are even 'advanced' collectors out there in possession of loads of rubbish because they preferred to believe the person or story, rather than the object.

We always make mistakes, but forewarned is forearmed and £300 spent on Pollendine, Bodsworth*, Chambers, Haselgrove - even Chappell to an extent - et al will help avoid a lifetime of expensive disappointment. It won't eliminate it, but it'll certainly help minimise it.

Cheers,

GT.

*Actually, these days you might have to pay heavily for this volume alone (if you can find one), although the publishers do sell a PDF version still.

**Some of these volumes - 1914 and 1917 - are attracting hefty prices now too. 

The key learning here is: if you see a good book, buy it while you can.

 

[trenchtrotter]

Wainfleet and Grovetown have nailed it here and in a polite way. The buy the object not the story was my point also and the fact that a series of theories were put forward to negate the obvious flaws is a bad thing. Books books, research including Google, fairs , contacts and buying from trusted sources saves pain and money. Bargains are out there but rare nowadays,.

[Andrew Upton]

If anyone else fancies their chances with the hood in the OP it now has reappeared on Ebay with the word "Replica" prominently on show in the header. I personally will be keeping my money in my pocket... 

British WW1 Replica Hypo Helmet Cloth Gas Hood [GSP] | eBay

[Sarchet]

An absurd price for a damaged replica. You can get brand new reproductions for a fraction of the cost - in fact, you could get a reproduction Hypo, PH, and carry bags and have money left over. Or a reproduction SBR set for about the same.

[thedawnpatrol]

If I may add to this discussion, I very recently 'discovered' this in a garage.........what are your thoughts ?

 

[mark holden]

The very bold markings are not in keeping with the wear on the rest of the hood in my opinion. Some of the numbers look like they have been inked using a modern stencil set. Just my view which may well be wrong.

[Stereoview Paul]

If you look at the photos, the real thing seems to have a prominent stitch line halfway between the edge of the window and the outer rim of the surround. The seams were also properly inverted i.e. sewn inside out before reversing to use. Your example here is either inside out or probably more likely another replica.

[thedawnpatrol]

all i know is that my pal bought it 35+ years ago..............if you catch it in the right light the whole material has a crystalisation 'glint' to it...........strange.

[Grovetown]

The material is completely wrong.

And the markings are totally bogus - bit like those on a '1916' 'gas mask bag' sold on eBay recently.

Cheers,

GT.

[thedawnpatrol]

no, i'm still not convinced its not original..........you cant get that mica material these days.......and the cloth is the same as the WW1 Shirts ? 

[Grovetown]

33 minutes ago, thedawnpatrol said:

and the cloth is the same as the WW1 Shirts ? 

No it's not.

Either way, suit yourself. 

And if you stick it on eBay, it will be interesting to see if it goes for more than the £75 you got for the totally wrong gas mask bag.

[wainfleet]

That's not like the stitching I've seen on original examples. And I do not believe the stamping, it looks very new, quite unlike the black ink the inspection departments used, and in 40+ years collecting I've never seen a WD on either a PH or a hypo helmet. Typical faker overkill.

[14276265]

41 minutes ago, Grovetown said:

 

And if you stick it on eBay, it will be interesting to see if it goes for more than the £75 you got for the totally wrong gas mask bag.

Images of the gas mask bag (courtesy eBay) for comparison of the stampings.

[wainfleet]

4 minutes ago, 14276265 said:

Images of the gas mask bag (courtesy eBay) for comparison of the stampings.

That's a shockingly bad fake! And the broad arrow has exactly the same faint ending to the right arm as the hypo hood. Case proven, M'Lud....

[Lammy]

You can still buy the mica material.

Edited 8 January , 2022 by Lammy

[Old War Skule]

On 02/09/2021 at 18:26, trenchtrotter said:

Wainfleet and Grovetown have nailed it here and in a polite way. The buy the object not the story was my point also and the fact that a series of theories were put forward to negate the obvious flaws is a bad thing. Books books, research including Google, fairs , contacts and buying from trusted sources saves pain and money. Bargains are out there but rare nowadays,.

You're exactly correct.  Stop listening to the sales pitch and concentrate on the item.  The disappointment that a wrong item wasn't bought is short compared to buying it and finding out later it was wrong.