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1907 pattern bayonet questions


MA57

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Hi everyone,

I’m extremely new to collecting, I just started a month or so ago. I had a few questions

 

- how do I tell the difference between an Australian 1907 pattern bayonet and a British bayonet?

 

- how do I tell the difference between a ww1 and a ww2 bayonet? (1907 pattern )

 

- is Lithgow Australian and Wilkson British?

 

 - what markings do both British and Australian bayonet scabbards have?

 

- how do I tell if a bayonet is fake

 

Thats all. I do know markings on the blade. Thanks

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2 hours ago, MA57 said:

Hi everyone,

I’m extremely new to collecting, I just started a month or so ago. I had a few questions

 

- how do I tell the difference between an Australian 1907 pattern bayonet and a British bayonet?

 

- how do I tell the difference between a ww1 and a ww2 bayonet? (1907 pattern )

 

- is Lithgow Australian and Wilkson British?

 

 - what markings do both British and Australian bayonet scabbards have?

 

- how do I tell if a bayonet is fake

 

Thats all. I do know markings on the blade. Thanks

The answers to pretty much all of this can be found in the numerous threads on P1907s (if you do a search using the search bar at the top) but to get you started

 

1) The only difference is the markings on the blade the design/specs etc are the same they are to the same pattern. However there are variations like the absence of a clearance hole in the pommel which lasted longer on Lithgow rifles and various finishes and minor variations were introduced at different times  -- they were however governed by the same pattern and intended to be (and were) interchangeable.

Here are a couple of Lithgow blades to show you the markings

 

Lithgowinterbayo2.jpg.cea21996dcddd2d9e377528589066b8c.jpg

 

Lithgowinterbayo3.jpg.0b83b0699c9816d3e46508ac42be6af7.jpgLithgowinterbayo4.jpg.64301611453cfa91a0c2df770ce9851c.jpg

 

2) The blades had dates on them - dates of first issue and then subsequent inspections and reissues. WWII manufactured blades have WWII dates of production and issue (there are comparatively few BRITISH produced WWII p1907s and those are stamped WSC 294 (the wartime code for Wilkinson Sword) - however there are a lot of Australian and Indian WWII produced blades. Of course lots of WWI produced blades continued in service into WWII

 

3) Yes - but there were several other British producers and not all Australian bayonets are marked Lithgow. There are also Indian produced P1907s (and derivatives)

4) - A lot -- you need to get a reference book here -- there are all sorts of variations and the best books (Skennerton and RIchardson's British and Commonwealth Bayonets) has several pages of the markings

 

5) The only 1907s of which I am aware that have been "faked" (reproduced) are the earlier "Hooked Quillon" version produced before 1913 - if you are interested in normal 1907s - don't worry about fakes -- there were millions of P1907s produced - -they are unlikley to ever have a scarcity value while anyone on this forum is alive!

 

Be aware if you go down this road........

5-19-11.jpg.db47e9046b4c3c6cc5e60fab3126ed13.jpg

 

Edited by 4thGordons
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4 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

The answers to pretty much all of this can be found in the numerous threads on P1907s (if you do a search using the search bar at the top) but to get you started

 

1) The only difference is the markings on the blade the design/specs etc are the same they are to the same pattern. However there are variations like the absence of a clearance hole in the pommel which lasted longer on Lithgow rifles and various finishes and minor variations were introduced at different times  -- they were however governed by the same pattern and intended to be (and were) interchangeable.

Here are a couple of Lithgow blades to show you the markings

 

Lithgowinterbayo2.jpg.cea21996dcddd2d9e377528589066b8c.jpg

 

Lithgowinterbayo3.jpg.0b83b0699c9816d3e46508ac42be6af7.jpgLithgowinterbayo4.jpg.64301611453cfa91a0c2df770ce9851c.jpg

 

2) The blades had dates on them - dates of first issue and then subsequent inspections and reissues. WWII manufactured blades have WWII dates of production and issue (there are comparatively few BRITISH produced WWII p1907s and those are stamped WSC 294 (the wartime code for Wilkinson Sword) - however there are a lot of Australian and Indian WWII produced blades. Of course lots of WWI produced blades continued in service into WWII

 

3) Yes - but there were several other British producers and not all Australian bayonets are marked Lithgow. There are also Indian produced P1907s (and derivatives)

4) - A lot -- you need to get a reference book here -- there are all sorts of variations and the best books (Skennerton and RIchardson's British and Commonwealth Bayonets) has several pages of the markings

 

5) The only 1907s of which I am aware that have been "faked" (reproduced) are the earlier "Hooked Quillon" version produced before 1913 - if you are interested in normal 1907s - don't worry about fakes -- there were millions of P1907s produced - -they are unlikley to ever have a scarcity value while anyone on this forum is alive!

 

Be aware if you go down this road........

5-19-11.jpg.db47e9046b4c3c6cc5e60fab3126ed13.jpg

 

Thank you soooooo much! But I have one more question that I forgot to add - how do I tell if a bayonet is British made but Aussie used?

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It would have Australian ownership marks on.

either D^D or an arrow inside a D or military district stamps or Australian state ownership stamps.

Chris

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 25/06/2021 at 14:56, 4thGordons said:

It would have Australian ownership marks on.

either D^D or an arrow inside a D or military district stamps or Australian state ownership stamps.

Chris

How do I tell if a bayonet is British made but Australian used?

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The makers of Pattern 1907 Bayonets are,

American: Remington 

Australian: Lithgow 

British: Chapman (JAC), Enfield (EFD), Mole, Sanderson, Vickers, Wilkinson 

Indian: Rifle Factory, Ishapore (RFI).

Regards,

JMB

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2 hours ago, MA57 said:

How do I tell if a bayonet is British made but Australian used?

It would be made by one of the following: Chapman (JAC), Enfield (EFD), Mole, Sanderson, Vickers, Wilkinson, and, as I mentioned, it would have Australian ownership marks on it,  either D^D or an arrow inside a D or military district stamps or Australian state ownership stamps.

Chris

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  • 5 weeks later...

No, I am not.

Chris

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Hell of a set you show there Chris! You do have Some HQ. right? Thanks 

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