pbaker163 Posted 17 June , 2021 Share Posted 17 June , 2021 Trying to patch holes my Grandfathers service... He was born 26 April 1899 He enlised into E Surrey Regiment 26/5/16 at Bury St Edmunds (unconfimed he tried to get to front underage) Eventually called up again 18-1-18. 4th East Surrey Regt Posted to No.5 Officer Cadet Battalion Trinity College Cambridge was commissoned into 3rd Batt Norfolk Regiment -Felixstowe 29/5/1918 then I struggle where he went Medal Record shows France 18/9/18. Paper trail ----------------------------------------------------------------- In "New Soldier's Record" Record of Service Paper Army form B 2513 No. 38201 Christian Name Edmund Surname Baker Corps E Surrey REGT. Med class Grade 1 etc --------------- Memoradum Dated 9.1.18 from Col i/c Records Houslow to O/C Depot East Surrry Regt Kingston. "Reference to Attached Attestations & Memo Will you please allot Regtt numbers; as I can find no trace in part II orders for same Please cause necessary entry to to (sic) made in Part II Orders." Stamped D/273/1/197 11jan 1918 signed L.C.Barry? Capt for Col I/c No.1 Record Office Hounslow ----------------- Reply "from OC Herenwith attestations returned with regt Nos allotted as requested. -The necessary entry has been made in Part II orders Stamped 15 Jan 1918 & Signed H.P.Trecley? Lieut. Col Depot the East Surrey Regiment ---------------- Statement of the services of 38201 General Service Deemed to been enlisted PTE 26-6-16 Called up E Surrey Rgt PTE- 2-1-18 Posted PTE- 3-1-18 Attached to No. 5 Officer Cadet Bn.Trinity Coll. Cambridge -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I havn't managed to find his officers record card assumed destroyed.... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Medal Record Card WO/372/1 name corps rank regt No BAKER Norf Regt 2/lieut NONE! Edmund medal roll page remarks Norf R (over Victory) off 143 171 } IV.X.495 d/o 5/1/24.NW/5/30113 British } Star Theatre of war France Date entry 18.9.18 NW/5/30113 ------------------------------------------------------ LONDON Gazzette 23 Jan 1919 p 1187 "4th Bn Norfolk Regt. -2nd Lt E Baker is seconded for service with the Labour Corps. 8th Dec 1918 ------------------ Photographic/ postcard records Pictures his album he is wearing E Surrey Regiment cap badge (assuming during basic training) then groups show mixed cap badges including ANZAC assuming at OCB.. Then mixed RFC/RAF assume 1918 during its conversion. Picture of Norfolk regiment tug of war team then one of him and another wearing this GvR capbadge. also is regimental mascot donkey with same on side and regimental band with same cap badge. The Base drum writing reads "Kings Own **** ??? Regiment?" (Kings own Royal regiment suggested by forum) Some personal brownie pictures/postcards at training and official OTC and CUOTC postcards ETC . Some with names on. ------------------------------------- Cadets of No5 OCB Trinity College Dinner Menu Card from Friday 31st May 1918 with 32 signatures ----------------------------- Purchased postcards suggest route or links in France as per placenames as GOOGLE maps image below. What can you find me... thanks in advance... I also have some other loose photos from family will see if these link to other threads or will start newones for them. This orignally a started on below thread Mods please feel remove/move relevent posts from there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 18 June , 2021 Share Posted 18 June , 2021 7 hours ago, pbaker163 said: I havn't managed to find his officers record card assumed destroyed.... https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1177088 2/Lieutenant Edmund BAKER The Norfolk Regiment. Ordering and viewing options This record has not been digitised and cannot be downloaded. You can order records in advance to be ready for you when you visit Kew. You will need a reader's ticket to do this. Or, you can request a quotation for a copy to be sent to you. Book a visit Request a copy Reference: WO 339/123267 Description: 2/Lieutenant Edmund BAKER The Norfolk Regiment. Date: [1914-1922] Held by: The National Archives, Kew Former reference in its original department: 230843 Legal status: Public Record(s) Closure status: Open Document, Open Description This is within the National Archives but is not digitised currently so not viewable on line. George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 June , 2021 Share Posted 18 June , 2021 (edited) Just as a point of clarification he wasn’t “called up again”, he was called up once, under the Military Service Act 1916 (plus subsequent amendments). His earlier enlistment at the beginning of the war would have been voluntary under the then conditions, the subsequent one a form of conscription, whereby he was called for service upon reaching the requisite (mandated) age. Edited 18 June , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbaker163 Posted 18 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 18 June , 2021 Correction noted Frogsmile... my bad wording. Thanks for NA link George ... Not sure how I've either missed it on visit to kew (was 15 yrs ago) and subsequent searches online. Anyhow I patiently waited until after 9am and have now ordered page check request. Noted your location do you have any access to Suffolk WWI aircraft/airship accident/landing/capture reports or suggestion where to look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 18 June , 2021 Share Posted 18 June , 2021 3 hours ago, pbaker163 said: Suffolk WWI aircraft/airship accident/landing/capture reports I haven't delved into that area so cannot advise you at the moment I'm afraid. Currently painting but will have look through resources when the window is finished! I'm about five miles from Gipping where the family appear to have farmed George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 18 June , 2021 Share Posted 18 June , 2021 21 hours ago, pbaker163 said: General Service Deemed to been enlisted PTE 26-6-16 More knowledgeable forum pals will be able to give chapter and verse but I believe this relates to the passing of the Military Services Act of 1916 rather than a conscious enlistment. A man could no longer claim they didn’t know they were liable for service or thought they were ineligible – this was up to the military authorities to decide. 21 hours ago, pbaker163 said: He was born 26 April 1899 21 hours ago, pbaker163 said: Called up E Surrey Rgt PTE- 2-1-18 Posted PTE- 3-1-18 He would normaly have been called up in the three months after his 18th birthday, (i.e.26th April 1917 to 26th July 1917), so looks like he had some sort of deferment. 21 hours ago, pbaker163 said: Attached to No. 5 Officer Cadet Bn.Trinity Coll. Cambridge An officer training course at such a unit lasted four and a half months, so he would have spent little if any time traing with the East Surrey Regiment. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/training-to-be-a-soldier/officer-training-in-the-british-army-of-1914-1918/ Officer Cadets wore a band round their hats as backing to the capbadge, so the picture you posted in the other thread doesn’t appear to reflect this stage of his Army career. 21 hours ago, pbaker163 said: Posted to No.5 Officer Cadet Battalion Trinity College Cambridge was commissoned into 3rd Batt Norfolk Regiment -Felixstowe 29/5/1918 then I struggle where he went Medal Record shows France 18/9/18. In the August 1918 British Army Monthly List there is a 2nd Lieutenant E. Baker with seniority from the 29th May 1918, (i.e. date of commissioning), but he is shown on the joint establishment of the 1st and 2nd Norfolks, (column 988). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/120464130 Other 2/Lts with seniority from the 29th May 1918 also shown on the establishment of the 1st and 2nd Battalions are:- Goodman L Bird P.A. Rodwell H Willis C E Woodhouse K L Rose H J Seaman J Wentford T, (M.M.) Gazette entries:- Leonard Goodman page 6351 Supplement 31 May 1918. (Page 6350 Regular Forces “Undermentioned cadets to be temporary 2nd Lts, 29 May 1918”) https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30712/supplement/6351/data.pdf Philip Arthur Bird, Harold Rodwell, Charles Emery Willis and Kenneth Leighton Woodhouse. Page 6870 Supplement 8 June 1918. (Page 6869 Regular Forces “Undermentioned cadets to be temporary 2nd Lts, 29 May 1918”) https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30736/supplement/6870/data.pdf Harold James Rose, Edmund Baker, John Seaman and Thomas Wentford, M.M. Page 7283 Supplement 20th June 1918. (Page 7282 Regular Forces, the undermentioned cadets to be temp. 2nd Lts. 29 May 1918”) https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30754/supplement/7283 I may be reading too much into it, but potentially Harold James Rose, John Seaman and Thomas Wentford may also have attended No.5 Officer Cadet Battalion and were on the same course as Edmund Baker. September 1918 British Army Monthly List. That group of officers is now shown as Attached to the establishment of the 1st & 2nd Battalion. (Column 988). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103475582 October 1918 British Army Monthly List Same entry. (Column 988). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103124176 November 1918 British Army Monthly List Same entry. (Column 988). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123099153 December 1918 British Army Monthly List That group of officers have been moved into a pool of officers relating to the 7th, 8th and 9th Service Battalions. (The 8th was disbanded in February 1918).. No specific units or employments are given against any of them. Columns 993c (bottom) – 994 (top). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103436024 January 1919 British Army Monthly List. Same entries (993c to 994) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123217332 February 1919 British Army Monthly List. Same entries (993c to 994) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/115601411 March 1919 British Army Monthly List. Same entries (993c) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106139588 Looking at the MiC’s for that group of 2nd Lieutenants. Leonard Goodman. Commissioned from N.Staffs Regiment, (Private 23739). Just shows first theatre was France. Philip Arthur Bird – France 8th October 1918. Harold Rodwell – previously saw service overseas in the ranks with ASC & Lancashire Fusiliers Charles Emery Willis. No date in Theatre and had previously been 26265 Norfolk Regiment. As an Officer he is shown as 3rd Battalion Norfolk Regiment then 53 Prisoner of War Company. Kenneth Leighton Woodhouse – no obvious MiC Harold James Rose – no obvious MiC John Seaman – no obvious MiC Thomas Wentford – other ranks service with the Norfolk Regiment from July 1916. Looking at the relevant Norfolk Regiment War Diaries. 7th Battalion. No mention of any officers of drafts of men joining the Battalion in September, (18th onwards), or October 1918. 9th Battalion. The version available from the National Archive only goes up to September 1918. Appendix No.1 for that month, dated 1st October 1918, is an Officer Roll. There is no Edmund Baker. 12th Battalion. Again no mention of any officers joining or drafts received in the latter half of September 1918, or in October 1918.However, (and still may not be relevant to Edmund), the officer strength at the end of October had increased to 42 from 36 at the end of September. 21 hours ago, pbaker163 said: LONDON Gazzette 23 Jan 1919 p 1187 "4th Bn Norfolk Regt. -2nd Lt E Baker is seconded for service with the Labour Corps. 8th Dec 1918 Note the August 1918 British Army Monthly lists shows a 2nd Lieutenant E. Baker with the 4th Reserve Battalion. That individual has seniority from the 27th February 1918. (Column 991) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/120464142 He is still shown as a 2nd Lt with the 4th Reserve Battalion on the December 1918 Monthly List. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103435988 The February 1919 British Army Monthly still shows him on the strength of the 4th Reserve Battalion – but employed by the Labour Corps. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/115601375 So this E. Bakers appears to be a completely different individual. Still no clue as to what Edmund did when he reached France. Hope some of that helps, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbaker163 Posted 19 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 19 June , 2021 On 19/06/2021 at 06:22, PRC said: More knowledgeable forum pals will be able to give chapter and verse but I believe this relates to the passing of the Military Services Act of 1916 rather than a conscious enlistment. A man could no longer claim they didn’t know they were liable for service or thought they were ineligible – this was up to the military authorities to decide. He would normaly have been called up in the three months after his 18th birthday, (i.e.26th April 1917 to 26th July 1917), so looks like he had some sort of deferment. An officer training course at such a unit lasted four and a half months, so he would have spent little if any time traing with the East Surrey Regiment. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/training-to-be-a-soldier/officer-training-in-the-british-army-of-1914-1918/ Officer Cadets wore a band round their hats as backing to the capbadge, so the picture you posted in the other thread doesn’t appear to reflect this stage of his Army career. In the August 1918 British Army Monthly List there is a 2nd Lieutenant E. Baker with seniority from the 29th May 1918, (i.e. date of commissioning), but he is shown on the joint establishment of the 1st and 2nd Norfolks, (column 988). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/120464130 Other 2/Lts with seniority from the 29th May 1918 also shown on the establishment of the 1st and 2nd Battalions are:- Goodman L Bird P.A. Rodwell H Willis C E Woodhouse K L Rose H J Seaman J Wentford T, (M.M.) Gazette entries:- Leonard Goodman page 6351 Supplement 31 May 1918. (Page 6350 Regular Forces “Undermentioned cadets to be temporary 2nd Lts, 29 May 1918”) https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30712/supplement/6351/data.pdf Philip Arthur Bird, Harold Rodwell, Charles Emery Willis and Kenneth Leighton Woodhouse. Page 6870 Supplement 8 June 1918. (Page 6869 Regular Forces “Undermentioned cadets to be temporary 2nd Lts, 29 May 1918”) https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30736/supplement/6870/data.pdf Harold James Rose, Edmund Baker, John Seaman and Thomas Wentford, M.M. Page 7283 Supplement 20th June 1918. (Page 7282 Regular Forces, the undermentioned cadets to be temp. 2nd Lts. 29 May 1918”) https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30754/supplement/7283 I may be reading too much into it, but potentially Harold James Rose, John Seaman and Thomas Wentford may also have attended No.5 Officer Cadet Battalion and were on the same course as Edmund Baker. September 1918 British Army Monthly List. That group of officers is now shown as Attached to the establishment of the 1st & 2nd Battalion. (Column 988). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103475582 October 1918 British Army Monthly List Same entry. (Column 988). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103124176 November 1918 British Army Monthly List Same entry. (Column 988). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123099153 December 1918 British Army Monthly List That group of officers have been moved into a pool of officers relating to the 7th, 8th and 9th Service Battalions. (The 8th was disbanded in February 1918).. No specific units or employments are given against any of them. Columns 993c (bottom) – 994 (top). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103436024 January 1919 British Army Monthly List. Same entries (993c to 994) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123217332 February 1919 British Army Monthly List. Same entries (993c to 994) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/115601411 March 1919 British Army Monthly List. Same entries (993c) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106139588 Looking at the MiC’s for that group of 2nd Lieutenants. Leonard Goodman. Commissioned from N.Staffs Regiment, (Private 23739). Just shows first theatre was France. Philip Arthur Bird – France 8th October 1918. Harold Rodwell – previously saw service overseas in the ranks with ASC & Lancashire Fusiliers Charles Emery Willis. No date in Theatre and had previously been 26265 Norfolk Regiment. As an Officer he is shown as 3rd Battalion Norfolk Regiment then 53 Prisoner of War Company. Kenneth Leighton Woodhouse – no obvious MiC Harold James Rose – no obvious MiC John Seaman – no obvious MiC Thomas Wentford – other ranks service with the Norfolk Regiment from July 1916. Looking at the relevant Norfolk Regiment War Diaries. 7th Battalion. No mention of any officers of drafts of men joining the Battalion in September, (18th onwards), or October 1918. 9th Battalion. The version available from the National Archive only goes up to September 1918. Appendix No.1 for that month, dated 1st October 1918, is an Officer Roll. There is no Edmund Baker. 12th Battalion. Again no mention of any officers joining or drafts received in the latter half of September 1918, or in October 1918.However, (and still may not be relevant to Edmund), the officer strength at the end of October had increased to 42 from 36 at the end of September. Note the August 1918 British Army Monthly lists shows a 2nd Lieutenant E. Baker with the 4th Reserve Battalion. That individual has seniority from the 27th February 1918. (Column 991) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/120464142 He is still shown as a 2nd Lt with the 4th Reserve Battalion on the December 1918 Monthly List. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103435988 The February 1919 British Army Monthly still shows him on the strength of the 4th Reserve Battalion – but employed by the Labour Corps. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/115601375 So this E. Bakers appears to be a completely different individual. Still no clue as to what Edmund did when he reached France. Hope some of that helps, Peter Thank you for your time Peter. Noted from above It is likely my Grandfather tallys with the MIC I refered to and the 1/2 Norfolk British Army List cohort with his and peers Commisioned around 29 May 1918.Point to note though that MIC has no Regiment Number recorded on it for that individual. Also it appeared he had no number allocated when he was called up Jan 1918. Disclaimer-My Grandfather passed away before I was born so any non evidenced information came from my late father who understood my Grandfather tried/suceeded to volunteer underage and was called back by his father. He also wanted to join RFC but again was prevented by lacking permission of his father. Anyhow back to your comments hopefully to prove or disprove the heresay... You note there may have been some deferment as he was called up Jan 1918 and not April/July 1917... Possible reassons? He was a "Farm Steward" possibly protected occupation/his father wouldn't let him go. Was this possbily delayed due to lack of regimental number as noted by correspondence within his New soldier's Record. Or prevous service underage or he may have been involved in OTC at old school (Woodbridge School)? To help clarify this would OCB cadets go straight to OCB or have had basic training with reserve Unit that they were enlisted to first? Assume 4 1/2 months training at OCB done in the reserve regiment uniform that they had been called up into and so explain the pictures I've got of him in other ranks East Surrey regiment uniform (without officer Cadet white cap stripe). One such photograph attached... marked on rear with Self, Ninkovich, C.B. Hall. I'd failed previously searching for these inviduals. I was hoping to search for them myself in army list to potentially confirm they were at OCB or elsewhere. Particularly after seeing your links. However I'm having problems searching data bases you referenced, and assume you have a NLS readers ticket or other short cut to Army list and MIC's (Please could you point me to good link/suggested subsription page so i can search myself rather than keep troubling others, I'd been very dissapointed with subscription from Forces War Records in past, had more luck Ancestry.com before my subscription lapsed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 19 June , 2021 Share Posted 19 June , 2021 2 hours ago, pbaker163 said: Point to note though that MIC has no Regiment Number recorded on it for that individual. Also it appeared he had no number allocated when he was called up Jan 1918. He only saw service overseas with the Norfolk Regiment, (if only nominally), as an officer, so there should be no reference to any other ranks service number on his Medal Index Card. Officers didn't gain service numbers until the 1920 Army renumbering, so again no number. 2 hours ago, pbaker163 said: My Grandfather passed away before I was born so any non evidenced information came from my late father who understood my Grandfather tried/suceeded to volunteer underage and was called back by his father. He also wanted to join RFC but again was prevented by lacking permission of his father. The problem with proving these family legends is that as well as lieing about his age, the individual may also have lied about his name and given false details about his next of kin. There may be a surviving set of service records out there for him for an enlistment pre-1916, showing the correct details once he had been reclaimed by his parents, but the likes of Ancestry \ FindMyPast are almost certain to have him indexed under his original false name. Post the introduction of the Military Services Act in 1916, the options of volunteering for residents in England became extremely limited for those under 18, as conscription had been introduced. You also have the problem that if he lied about his age, (and possibly his name), in order to enlist, he had committed a criminal offence as well as being dishonourably discharged. My understanding is that despite his obvious enthusiasm to serve, both those factors would count against him ever getting a subsequent commission. 2 hours ago, pbaker163 said: To help clarify this would OCB cadets go straight to OCB or have had basic training with reserve Unit that they were enlisted to first? Assume 4 1/2 months training at OCB done in the reserve regiment uniform that they had been called up into and so explain the pictures I've got of him in other ranks East Surrey regiment uniform (without officer Cadet white cap stripe). The timescale counts against anything more than a fortnight max at the East Surrey Depot - to have gone to an OCB so shortly after being called up means that he was approved for officer training beforehand. My question for you would be does his uniform in that picture look like of an officer or other ranks? An officer had to provide his own uniform, (for which he got an allowance), so I'm just wondering if the picture was actually taken pre call-up, having just taken delivery of his new uniform, and he was trying it on. Might then explain the lack of the cadet band on his cap. 2 hours ago, pbaker163 said: However I'm having problems searching data bases you referenced, and assume you have a NLS readers ticket or other short cut to Army list and MIC's (Please could you point me to good link/suggested subsription page so i can search myself rather than keep troubling others, I'd been very dissapointed with subscription from Forces War Records in past, had more luck Ancestry.com before my subscription lapsed) The National Library of Scotland site is free to view. Army, Navy and Airforce Lists, as well as the War Office Casualty Lists from August 1917 onwards can be found here:- https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/97343435 Even the most basic free Ancestry Account gives you visibility of Medal Index Cards - in fact that is the only Great War era military document I believe you can see. And of course thats doubly important for Officers as it's the only place you can see the reverse side. As Officers had to apply for their medals, the reverse side of the MiC (usually) has contact addresses. Having a free Ancestry account, (your old lapsed one probably gives you that level of access), means you also readily take advantage of free weekends when they come up without having to register. It also gives you access to Ancestrys' sister site in the US, Fold3, when they have free weekends. Over the last few years documentation from the Ministry of Pensions relating to Great War Pensioners have become available. You can see transcripts on Ancestry, but have to go to Fold3 to see the documents, which requires a separate subscription. (For completeness, you can access that recordset on Fold3 for free if you subscribe to the Western Front Association. It was members of the WFA who were responsible for saving the documents from the skip !) In passing it looks like a couple of the officers on the menu card you posted in a separate thread have such War Pensions cards \ ledgers. I'm assuming you are in the UK. If that is the case then most local library services offer access to either Ancestry or FindMyPast, (and sometimes both). Normally you have to use one of their computers on site. However during the pandemic many local library services have come to arrangement allowing home access - for example I have FindmyPast courtesy of Norfolk County Library Service. At this time there is no end-date for when this will end - I was in the County Archive yesterday for the first time in 18 months and all the computers are still off limits. So maybe worth checking out your local library service website to see what's on offer. Another useful source available via the Library is the British Newspaper Archive, (BNA). Unfortunately they don't seem to want to allow home access for Library users. However FindMyPast Library edition includes access to the BNA. I don't know if there is something similar with the Ancestry equivalent. If you are considering subscribing to FindmyPast it's also woth looking at the familysearch website. Free to use, it has a close relationship with a number of genealogy sites, including FindMyPast for British Army service records. You can't actually see the documents but at least you'll know whether there is something there to find. https://www.familysearch.org/search/ Hope that helps, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Rayner Posted 20 June , 2021 Share Posted 20 June , 2021 (edited) Perhaps this is Ninkovich? First name(s) Dobrwoye Milivoye Last name Ninkovitch Rank Cadet Regiment Officer Cadet Battalion Year 1914-22 Archive The National Archives Archive reference WO 339/129411 Series WO 339 Series description Wo 339 - Officers' Services, First World War, Regular Army And Emergency Reserve Officers Record set British Army Service Records Category Military, armed forces & conflict Subcategory Regimental & Service Records Collections from Great Britain, UK None within Find My Past at Record Transcription: British Army Service Records | findmypast.co.uk There is also a very empty medal card! also in Ancestry George Edited 20 June , 2021 by George Rayner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 20 June , 2021 Share Posted 20 June , 2021 C.B. Hall - possibles. There is a similarly empty Medal Index Card for a Lieutenant C B Hall, 4th Suffolk Battalion attached 1st Garrison Battalion, Lincolnshire Regiment. Contact address is 31/1 Dalhousie Square, Calcutta. I dipped into the British Army October 1918 Monthly List but couldn't spot a likely candidate under either unit. National Archive however has surviving officers records for a 2nd Lieutenant Cecil Byng Hall, Suffolk Regiment. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C700271 London Gazette shows him commissioned 4th August 1915 in the 4th Battalion, Suffolk Regiment. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29249/page/7584/data.pdf (So probably can be ruled out). There is a Medal Index Card for Second Lieutenant Cecil Berners Hall, 1st Battalion, Grenadier Guards, (later Lieutenant 3rd Battalion). First landed in France April 1918. As a Guards Officer I believe he would have gone to their OCB. There are also MiCs for two 2nd Lieutenants who were B.C. Hall, and two where C.B. were the second and third initials respectively. Of course C.B. Hall may never have applied for any medals - possibly because he wasn't entitled to any. Hopefully the right man will turn up in the London Gazette in connection with other known graduates from the course. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 25 August , 2021 Share Posted 25 August , 2021 I've posted some evidence re his time at No 5 OCB on your other thread: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbaker163 Posted 30 September , 2021 Author Share Posted 30 September , 2021 Update After receiving his service record after scanning request they make more sense over this period... most from Senior OTC and OCB period Junior OTC: Woodbridge School 1912-31st March 1915 Attested: 26th May 1916 4th Bat East Surrey Regt To reserve: 27th May 1916 Senior OTC: (4 1/2 Months only) Trinity College Cambridge April 20th 1917 to 3rd? Sept 1917 Mobilised: 2 Jan 1918 Posted: No.5 OCB Trinity College Cambridge 4 Jan 1918 Commsioned: 2nd lt 3rd Batt Norfolk reg 28th May 1918 France: 18 September 1918 12th (yeo) Norfolk Regiment Discharged 18th Feb 1919 note of thanks to Steve Smith for his fruitfull pointer to 12th (Y) Norfolk Regiment... will post more when got more detail of each period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Fair Posted 10 October , 2021 Share Posted 10 October , 2021 Hello Paul. I don't have a match for either CB Hall or Ninkovich/Ninkovitch on my No 5 OCB database. However, I have already seen the Ninkovitch personal file and it is your man. He was a Serbian cadet in CUOTC who went to No 3 RFA School at Weedon. He took a commission in the Serbian Army on completion. Hence no MIC, and why his file shows up in TNA with rank as officer cadet. Here is his commission application made while he was at CUOTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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