Joseph Cowley South Staffs

[Swisstony25]

I am trying to locate as much info about my girlfriends great grandfather.

 

All we know is that he was in South Staffs regiment and he was injured in the Dardanelles.

 

If anyone has more info would be really grateful.

 

cheers,

 

Tony

Edited 10 June , 2021 by Swisstony25

[sadbrewer]

there is a 18410 Joseph Cowley in the South Staffs, later 73182 in The Notts and Derbyshires.

[Matlock1418]

12 minutes ago, sadbrewer said:

there is a 18410 Joseph Cowley in the South Staffs, later 73182 in The Notts and Derbyshires.

Snap!

Was looking at him

MIC at the National Archives https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D1972921 [And Ancestry/Fold3]

Shows first ToW as 2B 15.9.15

Think we may need a bit more info on the table to progress

:-) M

 

Edit;

 1914-15 Star and BWM & VM Medal Rolls both say 7th Bn [which would match with what LLT has to say about the South Staffs

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/south-staffordshire-regiment

Further edit:

BWM & VM MR says 11th Bn Notts & Derby - this is what LLT has to say:

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/sherwood-foresters-nottinghamshire-derbyshire-regiment

Edited 10 June , 2021 by Matlock1418
edit & further edit

[sadbrewer]

1 minute ago, Matlock1418 said:

Snap!

Was looking at him

MIC at the National Archives https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D1972921 [And Ancestry/Fold3]

Shows first ToW as 2B 15.9.15

Think we may need a bit more info on the table to progress

:-) M

 

He appears as wounded in the Casualty list in The Birmingham Post of September 8th 1916 ....  from or attested in Walsall

[PRC]

Medal Index Card for 18410 Joseph Cowley shows him landing at Gallipoli on the 15th September 1915. No obvious surviving service records - at least as far as FindMyPast is concerned. He qualified for the 1914/15 Star, Victory Medal and British War Medal. The related service medal roll for his Victory Medal and British War Medal, if the clerk completing it followed standing instructions, (not all records offices did), it should show actual Battalions served with. The Rolls are only on Ancestry.

 

Our parent site, the Long, Long Trail only shows the 7th Battalion serving at Gallipoli.

7th (Service) Battalion
Formed at Lichfield in August 1914 as part of K1 and became part of 33rd Brigade in 11th (Northern) Division. Moved to camp at Grantham in mid-September 1914.
Moved to Frensham in April 1915.
Sailed from Liverpool in early July 1915 for Gallipoli, landing at Cape Helles and remaining there 23-28 July 1915. First casualties sustained in the “Horseshoe” facing Achi Baba.
Withdrawn to Imbros and rejoined rest of division for landing at Suvla Bay 7 August 1915.
Evacuated from Gallipoli December 1915, moved to Egypt via Imbros.
Moved to France in July 1916.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/south-staffordshire-regiment/

 

As he arrived in September 1915 it looks like he was part of a replacement draft. It's likely therefore that he did his training in the UK with another Battalion.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

[Swisstony25]

Not sure if this helps but I do also know.

 

Born in Walsall

DOB 30.05.1895

[sadbrewer]

73182 J Cowley (Walsall)   Notts and Derbyshires, was in the casualty list of 21st November 1918 along with a large number

of fellow Sherwood Foresters.

[Matlock1418]

Another look at his 1914-15 Star Medal Roll on Ancestry shows 73182 transferred to Army Z Reserve 26/5/19 as a L/Sgt.

No pension record has been found at WFA/Fold3

:-) M

Edited 10 June , 2021 by Matlock1418

[PRC]

War Diaries for units serving at Gallipoli can be seen on Ancestry. War Diaries for Egypt are not currently available on line. The War Diaies for the 7th Battalion in France & Flanders can currently be downloaded for free from the National Archive. You do have to sign in with your account, but if you don't have one even that can be set up as part of placing your first order. Just click "sign in" and follow the instructions - no financial details are required.

They have:-

July 1916 to June 1917: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14017469

July 1917 to December 1917: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14017470

January 1918 to August 1918: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14017471

September 1918 to May 1919: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14017472

 

Going back to the Long, Long Trail, the 7th Battalion were part of the 33rd Brigade of the 11th Division. The LLT webpage for the 11th Division adds:-

On 12 June 1915, the Division received orders to prepare for service at Gallipoli.

1915
Embarkation took place at Liverpool from 30 June, with much of the Division sailing on the Aquitania and Empress of Britain. Mudros was reached by Divisional HQ and 32nd Brigade on 10 July. On 6-7 August 1915 the Division landed near Lala Baba at Suvla Bay.

On 19/20 December 1915 the Division withdrew from Gallipoli and moved to Imbros.

1916
On 26 January the Division began to move to Egypt, landing at Alexandria on 2 February and concentrating at Sidi Bishr six days later. 19 February saw the Division take over a section of the Suez canal defences.

The Division received orders on 17 June 1916 for a move to France. Embarkation at Alexandria was completed on 3rd July and by 7th of that month Divisional HQ had been set up at Flesselles. By 27 July, the Division had taken over part of the front in Third Army sector. The Division then took part in the following operations:

The capture of the Wundt-Werk (Wonder Work)*
The Battle of Flers-Courcelette*
The Battle of Thiepval*
The battles marked * are phases of the Battles of the Somme 1916

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/11th-northern-division/

 

11 minutes ago, sadbrewer said:

He appears as wounded in the Casualty list in The Birmingham Post of September 8th 1916 ....  from or attested in Walsall

 

The official Casualty list mentions usually came at least 4 weeks or more after the actual date of wounding, so he was a casualty before any of the major Somme actions shown for the 11th Division - if indeed he was serving with the 7th Battalion, (still to be confirmed).

 

The place given on the Casualty List is the home of the next of kin - only in the absence of any next of kin does it then show place enlisted. In many cases the home of the next of the kin and that of the wounded man are one and the same, but it can't be taken for granted.

 

Wounded can be anything from something slight that means a man can remain at duty up to and including life threatening injuries.

 

Soldiers didn't routinely transfer between units, so the most likely scenario is that he was wounded \ accidentally injured \ had health issues that required him to be medically evacuated at least as far back as the coast or even the UK. After medical treatment he would have gone to a convalescent camp \ home \ hospital for an assessment of whether he was fit for further service either in the front line or if he could serve in a supporting role either overseas or at home. In the UK after a spell of leave the soldier would then go to the Regimental Depot and from there he would be posted to a home service only Battalion, for refresher training and further health assessments, and then to be held for a future replacement draft. These would be sent out to an Infantry Base Depot - where increasingly from 1916 onwards they would then be sent to wherever they were needed.

 

A check with Sherwood Foresters with nearby service numbers to see if they have surviving service records may throw some light on when and how he ended up serving with that Regiment.

 

For example, a quick look on the CWGC database for the Service number range 73170 – 73199 brings up:-

73172 Private Francis Victor Lewin, 16th Battalion, died 2nd August 1917. Remembered Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial. SDGW shows formerly 9713 Lincolnshire Regiment .No surviving service records.

 

73180 Private John Joseph Cooper, “B” Company, 11th Battalion, died 9th April 1917. Remembered Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial. SDGW shows formerly 16556 Lincolnshire Regiment. Has a few surviving service records but they are in a very poor state – references to his transfer to the Sherwood Forsters has the relevant area for the dates shredded.

 

73181 Private Leonard Adams, 11th Battalion, died 7th June 1917. Remembered Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial. No surviving service records.

 

73191 Private Frederick Arthur Burrell, 11th Battalion, died 26th September 1916. Remembered at Thiepval Memorial. No surviving service records.

 

73196 Private John Hallam, 12th Battalion, died 13th September 1916. Buried Calais Southern Cemetery. No surviving service records.

 

So seems likely he was with the Sherwood Foresters by early September 1916. Filling in the gaps may help firm up the date.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

[GraemeClarke]

Regards,

Graeme

[Swisstony25]

Thanks all.

[mikebriggs]

Sherwood Foresters with the number 73056 - 73168 transferred from S. Staffs (mostly 7th Battn) to 11th Battalion Sherwood Foresters on/around 21/07/1916