Replica Engraving

[rclpillinger]

I have decided to spend a significant amount of money to get a full set of replica medals to replace the medals my Grandfather lost in a house fire in 1948 when his wooden mill house near Canterbury burnt to the ground. He was ninety years old and lost a huge amount of his memorabilia; it must have been devastating for him at that age. 

As this is going to cost a bit I want to get it right and the engraving is taxing me a bit. Need some help. 

 

The following medals were awarded to him, followed by his rank at the time, and the unit that he was then serving with.

 

Egypt Medal       (1 bar)               Srgt R Pillinger                                XRH

Queen’s SA Medal  (5 bars)         Hon Lieut. R Pillinger                      XRH

King’s SA Medal      (2 bars)        Hon Lieut. R Pillinger                      XRH

1914 Star                                     Hon Major R Pillinger                     Egyptian Camel Corps

14-18 War Medal                        Hon Major R Pillinger                     ASC

14-19 Victory Medal                   Hon Major R Pillinger                     ASC

Delhi Durbar Medal                    Hon Major R Pillinger                     XRH

LSGC                                           Srgt-Major R Pillinger                     XRH

Khedive s Star                            Sergeant R Pillinger                         XRH

 

I think his army number was 1662. Does this number appear on only OR rank's medals or does it appear on Honorary Officer's as well?

Can anybody tell me how each medal should be engraved?

 

His miniatures are in the Horsepower Museum but I doubt they are engraved. Someone is looking for me.

 

Good to be back after so long, and I hope you are all well.

 

Beast wishes

 

Richard 

 

 

[RNCVR]

His number, rank & Regiment would be on his Egypt medal. You have to determine by checking the Egypt medal roll for his Reg't if it is the 1882 medal or subsequent 1884-85 medal. Same with Khedival star is it an 1882 or 1884-86 dated star? The Khedival star was normally un named, but some Regiments had their stars privately named.

His 1914 star naming would have his rank (Hon Maj) & unit on the reverse.

 

His War & Victory medals would be named rank & name only - no unit for officers.

 

His LSGC would be as Egypt. But is his LS Victoria or Edward VII issue?

 

I dont think the 1911 Delhi Darbar was named, but he may have has his engraved privately.

 

Pretty certain an Army mate will be along to assist further...

[rclpillinger]

Thanks for that. Egypt medal is 84-86 with a Tamaai bar, and LSGC is Victoria (1895). 

[Jim Strawbridge]

Unlikely that the miniatures will be named as miniatures were not officially issued but bought privately from tailors or others for wear on formal occasions. Personally, I would not have them named as these replacements really have no connection to your grandfather other than as a remembrance as to his service. In addition, naming other than through the official channels almost always looks wrong. The naming needs to be impressed with stamps of the correct size and type. Engraved medals never look right. If you do have them named I would like to suggest that "copy" or "replacement" be added to save future generations thinking that they are the real thing. Lastly, I believe that you grandfather was actually awarded a 1914/15 star rather than a 1914 star.

[rclpillinger]

Jim, thanks for that, and this is why I am taking time to consult you about the project. 

 

All the medals will have an "R" engraved to mark that they are a replacement, and yes I had realized the 14/15 star as I have gone back to the original qualifying form.

 

I am buying them from the Worcester Medal Service and had felt they would offer me the correct engraving. I do take your point about not being directly connected to Grandpa though. I am also in contact with the Horsepower Museum where the miniatures are about the engraving. I do want to get this right.

 

Whilst we are speaking, I wonder if you are able to give me any more info about my Grandfather from the Correspondence part of the sheet below. I have never really understood what it is saying.

 

Richard

 

[chaz]

in brief, officers had to apply for their medals, OR's were issued.

the back of officers such as this one is confirming the application and the red writing relates to the office accepting the application.

 

the lower part being his address to send to, originally Alexandria where he was based on application, then they were notified of his home address in Torquay

[rclpillinger]

Chaz, I see. Can you tell me what the D A G 3rd echelon G H 2 E E F all means?  It is just that I am running out of places to go to find out what he did in 1917 and 18 after Gallipoli. I am confident he was in Palestine with Allenby and think he was on the staff, but I cannot find any record of it other than a picture I have of him with Allenby in the Garden of Gethsemane, and a hat of his which I understand is a  Lt-Colonel or Colonel.  

 

[chaz]

Richard, a starter

https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/Pages/military-abbreviations.aspx

 

so , my guess...   Deputy Adjutant General, General Hospital 2 Egyptian Expeditionary Force

[chaz]

currently a site being worked on, may help to contact owner of site

https://eefinww1.weebly.com/

 

only upto 1916 so far

https://eefinww1.weebly.com/1916.html

[David26]

I wonder- is it GH2 or GHQ - i.e. General Headquarters ?

 

  David. 

[Jim Strawbridge]

23 hours ago, rclpillinger said:

Jim, thanks for that, and this is why I am taking time to consult you about the project. 

 

All the medals will have an "R" engraved to mark that they are a replacement, and yes I had realized the 14/15 star as I have gone back to the original qualifying form.

 

I am buying them from the Worcester Medal Service and had felt they would offer me the correct engraving. I do take your point about not being directly connected to Grandpa though. I am also in contact with the Horsepower Museum where the miniatures are about the engraving. I do want to get this right.

 

Whilst we are speaking, I wonder if you are able to give me any more info about my Grandfather from the Correspondence part of the sheet below. I have never really understood what it is saying.

 

Richard

 

 

 

There are others on this site who will be able be able to explain the mysteries of the Medal Index Card better than me. I agree, though, that it is G.H.Q. (General Head Quarters) rather than G.H.2. I am pleased that you are going to have the medals marked as replacements. As for using Worcester Medal Service I have had no dealings with them but I have heard of their reputation for this type of work. I would have recommended them and/or Spinks. For the 1914/5 star the rank, initials and surname should be on one line and the unit as a second line. Finally, I have never seen a medal awarded to someone in the Egyptian Camel Corps so cannot with certainty say whether it will be given in full or abbreviated. Williamson' tome does not give an example. I know that the Egyptian Expeditionary Force was abbreviated to E.E.F. I can say that the Camel Corps, normally listed as an Indian unit, varies. These are examples from my collection.  6 CAMEL DEPOT, 51 S. CAMEL CP, 52 S. CAMEL CPS, 60 GR. CAMEL CPS, 61 G. CAMEL CPS, 70 CAMEL CORP, 72 CAMEL CORP, BIKANER CAMEL CORP and CAMEL CORPS E.  These are all BWMs or victories. I am guessing that none of these units were eligible for 1914/5 stars. The Egyptian Labour Corps was abbreviated to E.L.C. on medals. The only 1914/5 stars to camel units that I have seen were to 53/CAMEL CORPS. So I would suggest that for your grandfather's 1914/5 star replicas I would go for the naming in full or E. CAMEL CORPS.  

Edited 28 May , 2021 by Jim Strawbridge

[TullochArd]

1 hour ago, Jim Strawbridge said:

...... "Finally, I have never seen a medal awarded to someone in the Egyptian Camel Corps so cannot with certainty say whether it will be given in full or abbreviated." ......"So I would suggest that for your grandfather's 1914/5 star replicas I would go for the naming in full or E. CAMEL CORPS."  

 

If he is simply attached to the Egyptian Camel Corps from XRH then I believe his parent Regiment would still take precedence and would be used.  I also note the Medal Roll (as opposed to the Medal Index Card) is steadfastly "10/RH Offs" for for both issues (1.  Star 2. BWM/BVM) suggesting this is the case.  

Edited 28 May , 2021 by TullochArd

[Jim Strawbridge]

54 minutes ago, TullochArd said:

 

If he is simply attached to the Egyptian Camel Corps from XRH then I believe his parent Regiment would still take precedence and would be used.  I also note the Medal Roll (as opposed to the Medal Index Card) is steadfastly "10/RH Offs" for for both issues (1.  Star 2. BWM/BVM) suggesting this is the case.  

 

Could be. Certainly no X with dots in the angles on the Medal Index Card to indicate the unit.

[chaz]

I still look at it being GH2 due to his mic showing the same shape 2 in 14.2.19.

using the links I ve posted GH is General Hospital and as other links Ive posted refer to Red Cross,also searching through the web  for 3rd etchelon even  on this site mentions hospitals.

if you scroll down to Stilleto's image , unfortunately since upgrade cant post post number. there was an Australian General Hospital no2 in Alexandria

 

[TullochArd]

On 27/05/2021 at 12:16, rclpillinger said:

Jim, thanks for that, and this is why I am taking time to consult you about the project. 

 

All the medals will have an "R" engraved to mark that they are a replacement, and yes I had realized the 14/15 star as I have gone back to the original qualifying form.

 

I am buying them from the Worcester Medal Service and had felt they would offer me the correct engraving. I do take your point about not being directly connected to Grandpa though. I am also in contact with the Horsepower Museum where the miniatures are about the engraving. I do want to get this right.

 

Whilst we are speaking, I wonder if you are able to give me any more info about my Grandfather from the Correspondence part of the sheet below. I have never really understood what it is saying.

 

Richard

 

 

 

Second Unit on MIC.  RASC (EFC) Section......Royal Army Service Corps (Expeditionary Force Canteen) Section.  An important part of the military then and now.  

[Lawryleslie]

A word of caution regarding engraving of medals. I purchased my Grand Fathers medal replicas and had them engraved. The engraving was done with laser and I was very disappointed with them  as engraving was very faint. My cousin did the same with her dads medals but instead of engraving she purchased the correct size die stamps and after a little practice she did a great job of stamping his details making the medals look much more authentic.

[Matlock1418]

On 08/06/2021 at 08:58, Lawryleslie said:

A word of caution regarding engraving of medals. I purchased my Grand Fathers medal replicas and had them engraved. The engraving was done with laser and I was very disappointed with them  as engraving was very faint.

 

You don't say from where your replicas were obtained. 

Sorry you feel disappointed.

Might have expected mechanical engraving, rather than impressing, but I've got to confess I never would have thought that they might have been laser etched.

Thanks for posting on your experience.

On 08/06/2021 at 08:58, Lawryleslie said:

My cousin did the same with her dads medals but instead of engraving she purchased the correct size die stamps and after a little practice she did a great job of stamping his details making the medals look much more authentic.

I suppose part of the issue with replicas is that they should not look too authentic!

:-) M