Lance Corporal Alfred Ford

[Guest Graham Payne]

According to CWGC Alfred died on 14th July 1916 whilst serving in the 8th BN Leicestershire Regiment. He has no known grave. I am visiting the Somme at the end of the month and wish to visit the probable area where he was killed. My research suggests that the place would be Bazentin Le Petit wood but this assumes that he was not wounded first and that the date of death is correct.

Can anyone with SDGW please look him up and see if the information matches and also if the location is given.

Thank you

[Guest Hill 60]

Graham - SDGW states:

21181, L/Cpl Alfred Ford

7th Bn Leicestershire Regt.

Born: Morcott, Rutlandshire

Enlisted: Oakham, Rutlandshire

Killed in Action 14/7/16

France & Flanders

[Guest Graham Payne]

Lee - Thanks for the confirmation of the date. I had hoped the locations in SDGW were a bit more precise than just France & Flanders.

I guess it is off to PRO now to see if his service record survived.

[Guest Hill 60]

Graham - No, the SDGW only shows which war zone the casualty died in.

Good luck with the search for his Service Records

[shinglma]

You may glean something from Matthew Richardson's book "The Tigers: 6th, 7th, 8th & 9th (Service) Battalions of the Leicestershire Regiment" - i have a copy at home and would be happy to look up this evening.

Mike S

[Alan Seymour]

British Battalions on the Somme by Ray Westlake page 96 records:-

"8th (Service) Battalion, Leicestershire Regiment - Entrained at Ally-sur-Somme for Mericourt (10/7) and from there by lorries to Meaulte. Moved forward to Fricourt during night and from there took over support trenches - Railway Alley, Sunshine Alley, Willow Trench, Willow Avenue. Assembled north edge Mametz Wood for attack on Bazentin-le-Petit during night (13/7) - 'D' Company advanced with 6th and 7th Leicestershire 3.25 a.m. (14/7) - Villa Trench taken. War Diary records not a single officer left and assault led by N.C.O.'s. Rest of Battalion went forward 4.25 a.m. reaching northern edge Bazentin-le-Petit Wood. Commanding Officer Lieutenant-Colonel J.G. Mignon killed during enemy counter attack up Aston and Villa Trenches. Relieved and to Ribemont (17/7)"

If you do go to the PRO obtain treat yourself a copy of the 8th Bn. War Diary for July 1916, it has a full account for the period in question, one of the best I've seen. An excellent book to have for your trip is 148 Days on the Somme - 2nd July to 26th November 1916 by Barry Cuttell. This is full of excellent information including Trench names along with their I.G.N. Map reference numbers. This book is a follow up to his One Day on the Somme 1st July 1916, all books mentioned should be obtainable from Ray Westlake - Military Books at:- http://www.hellfire-corner.demon.co.uk/ray...y-westlake.html

Alan Seymour

[Guest Graham Payne]

Mike / Alan - Thank you for the information.

I have got "The Tigers" book on order along with "39 Months with the Tigers", just to try and get a feel for what it was must have been like. I will certainly try to get a look at the battalion war diary at the PRO. Only problem is I mistyped his bn. Alfred was actually in the 7th (Guess I am not shown as a private for nothing). Thanks again for all your help.

[shinglma]

7th Batallion as per 8th Batallion mentioned by Alan - they constituted 110th Brigade together with the 6th and 9th Battalions.

The night attack of the 14th july 1916 involved the 6th, 7th, 8th & 9th Service battalions of the Leicestershire Regiment attacking the German second line on Bazentin Ridge between Mametz Wood and Bazentin-le-Petit.

The 6th Btn and 7th Btn led the attack together with D Coy of the 8th Btn. the rest of the 8th and the 9th Btn followed up in support. Richardson sums up their experience thus:-

"They had successfully taken all of their objectives on 14 July, but for the Leicestershire battalions the Battle of Bazentin Ridge had been a tragedy. The casualties had indeed been truly appaling, and the 110th Brigade had been dealt a shattering blow, in the worst four days of fighting in its history to date. Each battalion had suffered in the region of a hundred men killed, with around two hundred more wounded"

You will enjoy "the Tigers" - its a cracking book. Well written and well illustrated. It gives the reader a real sense also of the Leicester that raised these battalions.

Enjoy!

[John_Hartley]

Dear All

Whilst you've still got your Leicesters books off the shelf, I'd appreciate any details of any mention of the 8th Bn on 2nd & 3rd May 1917. I think the Battalion was involved at Bullecourt but any info gratefully received.

I also have a summary of the 7th's War Diary for 29 June 1916 but would appreciate any details from a "more reflective history" (Tigers?) about a trench raid carried out that night. I am particulary interested in any reference to the artillery support. Great Uncle Ben Hartley was killed that evening whilst attached to the RFA Brigade as armament artificer. Artillery Diary suggests very successful shelling, Leicesters quite the reverse (perhaps, though, no surprises there then)

Thanks

John

[jim_davies]

Graham,

Not sure if you have this already, not if:

"Ford, Lance Corporal, Alfred, husband of Mrs Emily Ford of 12 New St, Oakham, was a native of Morcott and was born on the 13 Sept 1892. He was a shoe operative, and enlisted on the 17th Sept 1915, in the 7th Batt. Leicestershire Regt. He was promoted corporal's rank on the 21 Nov, went out to France on the 17 Feb 1916, and after taking part in the principal Somme engagements about that time, was killed in action, at a place not known, on 14th July. He leaves one child."

The above info would have been provided by nok, and hence not necessarily 100% accurate.

Alfred isn't commemorated on Morcott's war memorial, but as his widow lived at Oakham, maybe he's on Oakham's.

Jim

[keith]

Lc.Cpl a Ford is on the Oakham Memorial and there is a picture off him in the Rutland and the Great War book . There are four more names ,3 Hills and a J R Cox that are form Morcott but not on the Village Memorial

Keith shelvey

[Guest Graham Payne]

Mike,

Thank you for confirmation that the 7th Btn's movements were the same as for the 8th Btn.

I have a book which contains Maps of the area including trenches for the 14th and 15th hence if I can tie them in to current land marks I should be able to retrace Alfred's steps quite well. (subject to how much access you can get to the countryside around Mametz woods).

Jim,

Thanks, I did not have this information. Where does it come from?

Keith,

We have some photographs which we believe are of Alfred in his uniform. Is Rutland and the Great War available from Libraries around Oakham. It would be nice to confirm the photographs are of him.

Graham

P.S. I have some information to post on 3 brothers with the surname Wyer. They all served in Lincolnshire and Leicestershire regiments but were killed during WW1. I believe they were Alfred's brothers in law. His wife had a very bad war!! I hope to post them later today to see if I can get dates of birth,where they lived etc. I have Bn's etc but am not 100% certain they are the right Wyer's.

[jim_davies]

Graham,

The info I gave is from Rutland & the Great War. The Museum at Oakham has a copy and before I found one were nice enough to send me details and copies of the photograph of my great-great uncle.

Should they be unable to help you, let me know & I'll sent you details/copy of photo.

Jim

[John_Hartley]

If any Pals are in a position to do a look-up for my request last Friday, I'd appreciate the info by email rather than a post here. It's just that I'm going to be away for a little while and will only be able to access email.

Thanks in advance

John