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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Great War Rifles


Steve1871

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46 minutes ago, bert.f said:

scan from the book

Image.jpg

Wacker and Goertz are not infallible...

I don't have time right now to deal with this properly, but the  1877, 1897, and 1909 Prussian regulations are quite specific: E is for Ersatz. By 1909, E is still used for Ersatz, and non-script R.R. is for Rekruten depot. No, E, then not Ersatz, at least in Prussia. What the 1909 Prussian regulations don't say is that when more than one rekruten depot, that would be indicated by a figure 1 or 2, as in the second example above. 

The Bavarian regulations, as far as I can remember, only vary from the Prussian ones in that they had units such as Chevauliers that did not feature in the Prussian army. 

Steve has been nagging me for years to publish all the regulations in one place, but I simply don't have the time! Full-time job, two teenage boys, a wife, and a cat - and at the moment a ma-in-law staying with us...:mellow:

Julian

 

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I asume the Rekruten Depot was located in same area as Ersatz units,and managed the first basic training which followed by Ersatz Batallion and their companies with additional training before sending the soldiers to front,there depends on character of unit, in period as in WW1 existed Field Rekruten depots, anyway german prewar manuals use then a E.stamp for Ersatz Battalion and normally Rekruten Depots didnt have any companies at the basic training period.

Edited by AndyBsk
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Thank’s a lot Bert.F  

never heard of this book,     
( Handbook of German Weapon Stamps) for me, that would be a MUSY HAVE book. 
can you give me the author and ISBN # please

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17 hours ago, AndyBsk said:

... normally Rekruten Depots didnt have any companies at the basic training period.

To the best of my knowledge they never had companies. The idea that they did came about because there were in some cases up to two rekruten depot for one regiment, and so there is sometimes a marking similar to a regular unit company marking, e.g., 'XX.R.R.2.YYY', in which the '2' indicates the 2nd depot not a company.

Julian

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Rifle #48.        
9/5/22

Gew.88 Commission Rifle

Date          1890
Maker        Erfurt
Sn:             7725 A
Unit           B.4.R( script).R.5.144.  
              
4th Bavarian Reserve Infantry Regiment, 5 th Co. weapon 144

I am using this book German Commission Rifle by Paul S scarlata for this one

This is the Original 88’, there were several improved models. The main difference to SEE is that this original one still used the in- block clip, where later ones like the 88/05 changed to clip fed, later the 88/05 also had thumb recess, then a slightly deeper thumb recess on left receiver wall to help push in cartridges off of ammo clip. Also, after the Spitzer round was adopted, a rounded recess was milled into the rear of chamber for the slightly longer round. This original rifle does not have.

We can only guess if this rifle was simply used in this Bavarian Reserve unit in training or with all the rush in 1914-15, it might have been taken with it’s reserve unit into France

This rifle is interesting for what it lacks.      
It has no punch/ dot  = reinforced barrel   
It has no  ( nm) for new material= stronger steel         
mans no “S” for Spitzer round

The other odd thing is the serial number on the chamber. The 7725 A is all correct and matching, but on the chamber, it is followed by a STAR, not the letter / production block. It is not a Turkish star. I have never seen this before and find no info on line?!

Overall, in very good condition for a commission rifle here in the States, they usually are beat up and mismatched 

min markings, the stock has been worn a little smooth with use and age where two cartouche’s behind trigger of an R and X , I have no idea what those would be fore. I can make out an older, larger crowned C or G under the R.        
Since the vast majority of these commission rifles were upgraded and or modified later, it is almost rare to see an original, modified one

 

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Edited by Steve1871
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Nice rifle, but i would think this is a depot repair, which is not problem, the bolt number was reserialed evidently and question is the receiver star proof as on barell jacket i would think it was replaced in time, i dont see any S stamp for spitz round. Interestingly it would be nice to see a unit and stock serialing, as Erfurt is not typical for bavarian piece. Bavarians used mainly S71/84 with Gew88.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by AndyBsk
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23 hours ago, AndyBsk said:

... Bavarians used mainly S71/84 with Gew88.

Agreed, but nice to see one of these with a full length bayonet on it! Thanks Steve!

Julian

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Rifle #49.   
9/12/22

Kar.88

Date.            1890.     
Maker.          V.C.  Schilling
Sn:                1012a
Unit.             L.G. 797.

 

A very nice condition Kar 88,the chamber markings are interesting, has the punch/dot for the stronger steel, under the “2” is the Z stamp, lower is the S stamp for Spitzer bullet, there is a script H or K, I do not know what that stands for, and yes, the 1920 stamp meaning this piece soldiered on into the Weimar period. Also, under the KAR on receiver in nm for the upgrade.  As for the unit, I think it Landstrum “Guarde?” Not under a regiment but under an army instead? I sure someone is going to school me on that. In the States, most of these carbines have mismatch bolts and in poorer shape, hope you guys like😊

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There is nice Kar88 new modell,in great condition,the unit could be imperial and Leib -Garde,or police with 1920 stamp for Landjaegerei.

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I hoping could be war time stamp or even pre war

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Thank’s CJ556, I seem to remember, they were the first ever to be issued or used, after troop trials. Great to have your help here

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Rifle #50.        
9/19/22

Kar. 88

Date.            1894
Maker.          Erfurt.      
Sn:                8602
Unit.            21.D.2.90. 
 

The biggest thing about this Karbine is the Regimental unit. It was originally on the rear band as you can see, simple crossed out. The  Nose cap had a unit, but was dimpled/dotted out, instead of moving unit to nose cap above, where there is room, the armorer stamped the same exact number again over the dotted out space. You can clearly read both. The other thing that may be rare or at least scarce, is the Prussian Eagle stamp on left side of receiver. Overall, a very nice Karbine.

Receiver has the punch/ Dot for the newer stronger material, the Z for new barrel I think, and S for the new Spitzer round, and under the leagend Kar 88 has no  for new model

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Edited by Steve1871
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Question remains the unit on front band that was outdoted, it could be different weapon nr but same unit under or the 21.D was not good visible on the outdoted area and were restamped on front band twice, the New Modell is under designation Kar88/n.m. I assume the unit is 2.Badisches Dragoner Regiment nr.21, 2. Eskadron.

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Dragoner or dragonier, that was a type of Calvert unit ,

Either the nose cap was from another Karbine, or armorer put on bottom first, not realizing Regulation say nose cap, and changed it, but to have it twice like this is a unique collector piece

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Yes a  Cavalry unit mentioned sometimes a mounted infantry, the nose cap is 02 serialed so most real origin there, the older unit was outdoted and over it the newer one is not good visible, so i assume the front band was stamped for twice, anyway this unit is striked out too, so to depot the rifle was sent wout any actual unit stamp probably. The G88 could use unit stamp on front band so no problem probably with regulation as both parts could be unit marked.

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This is such a fascinating thread, thank you for sharing all the photos. 

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Glad you like it MrEd

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Rifle # 51.         
9/25/22

Kar.88/nm    
 

Date.         1893.         
Maker.      Erfurt.         
Sn:            8318 F.         
Bavarian issue

My last Karbine for now.         
This one, the chamber only has the punch/dot for “new Material” and receiver with nm ( new model) below the Kar 88 marking. Matching numbers. Unit is a Calvary type ( forgot the name). One last thing I noticed, the large Erfurt crown on this piece, Rifle#51 is different type from last carbine  #50

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Excellent collection, the last bavarian piece is unit marked for K.B. 3.Chevauleger Regiment Herzog Karl Theodor, 3.Eskadron. weapon nr.

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  • 2 months later...

I had bought 4 Kar.88’s together, my friend’s wife accidentally packed a wrong Karbine,no know when will get with my friend again to get it, he always traveling between 2 states

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Rifle #52.        
12/1/22

Mle. 74/80/14


Date.           
Maker.      Manufacture De Arms  Tulle    
Sn:             6168

 

I do not know too much about French arm’s, but as the legend say, was model 74 Gras, with a conversion for 1880, and converted again in 1914 for the war to reserve troops in the beginning of war. Has an exelent repair in stock. The two thing’s that stand out to me are the finish on receiver.  Does not seem to be regular bluing, that would wear evenly, going lighter shade till wears away or turns a brownish patina, the receiver here changes in spots with crisp edge to in. It does not seem to be paint, has too much of metallic tone

Tge second thing, on the butt. Besides the matching serial number, it has a larger number of 32173. Guessing a ( rack) number. 
 

A lot of small, deep, crisp small stampings, 

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Edited by Steve1871
Corrected
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