PB BUSH Posted 18 May , 2021 Share Posted 18 May , 2021 Good morning, I have another extract from my Grandfathers Navy service record below . Probably a very simple answer for Knowledgeable Navy historians Regards PB BUSH Apologies it was the "Class for Conduct" that I was referring to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 18 May , 2021 Share Posted 18 May , 2021 (edited) Ratings were automatically in the First Class for Conduct, unless reduced to the Seciond Class for disciplinary reasons (No.8 Punishment). KR&AI (1913):- REDUCTION TO SECOND CLASS FOR CONDUCT. 780. Offences for which awarded.-Reduction to the second class for conduct may be awarded in cases of gross insubordination, dishonesty, or gross misconduct on shore when not dealt with by the civil power, and also to men for whose continual slackness or misconduct the repeated award of minor punishments has proved ineffective. 2. It is to be awarded by warrant as a specific punishment except when ordered by the Admiralty in special cases of conviction by the civil power. (See 812.) 3. Penalties.-Men in the second class for conduct should not be employed on special or isolated duties. They may be ordered to fall in for inspection at such times as the Captain may appoint, and may be given such extra drill in the dog watches not exceeding one hour a day as the Captain may consider necessary for their improvement. They are also liable to be dealt with exceptionally if they misconduct themselves. Men in the second class for conduct are to be placed in the second class for leave, and remain in that class until restored to the first class for conduct. (See 786, clause 2.) They cannot be advanced to ratings that are not classed for conduct. 4. The total daily pay of men in the second class for conduct is to be less by one-sixth than their pay when not in that class. In order to avoid the use of fractions in the daily rates of pay, credit is to be given at the full rate of pay and a charge of one-sixth shown on the ship's ledger in the column Other charges." While thus paid the words " 2nd class for conduct " are to be noted in red ink after their names on the ship's ledgers, transfer lists, &c. Credits of extra pay, compensation, lodging, and kindred allowances are not to be subjected to the above deduction. 781. C.P.O.s, P.O.s, &e.-Chief petty officers, petty officers, leading rates, and non-commissioned officers of the Royal Marines, can only be reduced to the second class for conduct on being disrated below leading rate (or reduced to the ranks) and deprived of all good conduct badges. Other men may be reduced to the second class for conduct if deprived of all good conduct badges, or if not in possession of any. 2. Classification for Conduct.-All men on first entering or re-entering the Navy or Reserves are to be in the first class for conduct. Men received from other ships are to be placed in the class for conduct last noted on their service certificates or conduct sheets. 782. Restoration.-Should the Commanding Officer be satisfied with the behaviour of a man in the second class for conduct, and have reason to believe that he wishes to reform, he may restore the man to the first class at any time after three months. If the man leaves the ship while in the second class for conduct, the Captain is to note, on the conduct sheet, the date on which he proposed to restore the man to the first class. 2. Period in Second Class.-Notwithstanding any sentence of imprisonment, detention, or cell punishment, restoration to the first class is not in any case to be deferred beyond six calendar months from the date of reduction. Subject to this maximum period in the second class not being exceeded, time for which pay is not allowed is not to be counted towards restoration, except periods under sentence of imprisonment, detention, or confinement in cells, which may be allowed to count in the case of men who conduct themselves well and who are considered deserving of such consideration. Men in prison or under detention must be recommended for this privilege by the Officer in charge of the Establishment, the necessary report being obtained by the Captain in the case of men received from prison. 3. Restorations are to be made when they become due, whether the man prefers his claim or not. 4. Exceptional Restoration.-If, however, on account of any particular act of gallantry, or other exceptionally meritorious behaviour, the Captain or Commandant in the case of a marine serving on shore should consider a man to be deserving of restoration to the first class before he has been three months in the second class, the Commander-in-Chief (or Deputy Adjutant-General, Royal Marines, in the case of a marine serving on shore) may approve of such restoration, reporting the particulars of the case to the Admiralty. 5. The class for conduct is to be noted in the conduct book, conduct sheet (or company conduct sheet), and the service certificate as provided for in Articles 826, 828 and 830. Edited 18 May , 2021 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB BUSH Posted 19 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2021 Good morning horatio2, thank you for the concise explanation as to class for Conduct. There is another entry next to the Class for conduct below, which you may be able to advise on PB BUSH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 19 May , 2021 Share Posted 19 May , 2021 These two 'ticked' entries refer to other entries elsewhere on the record, regarding the award of a Good Conduct Badge (GCB) and 'over 3 years' rate of pay. Could you post the full record or provide name/number for your GF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB BUSH Posted 19 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2021 Grandfathers name was Ernest Collins, service number L5108. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawryleslie Posted 19 May , 2021 Share Posted 19 May , 2021 Be careful guys this may be considered by the GWF Police as outside the remit of the forum. 🙈🙈🙈 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB BUSH Posted 19 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2021 Why! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 19 May , 2021 Share Posted 19 May , 2021 Forum Rules Purpose The Great War Forum exists to discuss matters relating to the Great War 1914-19, to share information and aid research. It is not open for the discussion of other subjects. PB Bush, the years you seem to be interested in are outside of the Great War period. MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 19 May , 2021 Share Posted 19 May , 2021 The first entry seeems to refer to an amendment to the date of award of his 1st GCB, based on a report from HMS TAMAR in 1920. The second ticked entry appears to refer to his draft to VICTORY III in late 1920. The meaning is uncertain. The reference to 'over 3 years pay' from 1 April 1921 is actually the third entry marked (1) during his time in HMS HERMIONE, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 19 May , 2021 Share Posted 19 May , 2021 6 minutes ago, KizmeRD said: PB Bush, the years you seem to be interested in are outside of the Great War period. That said, it would be over-officious to cut-off discussion of a GCB badge award in April 1918 just because it was amended in 1920. This rating served from January 1914 and his WW1 service is apllicable to the matters raised. On the above criteria there should be no discussion of medals which were issued post-war in 1921, even though earned in WW1, not to mention piost-WW1 CWGC commemorations up to mid-1921. Let us be a bit flexible, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin spof Posted 19 May , 2021 Admin Share Posted 19 May , 2021 Horatio is correct. As he served during the war, it is fine to discuss post war service or what happened to him in later life. If anyone thinks a topic is outside the time period, please use the Report Post button and we'll review it. Regards Glen GWF Admin Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 19 May , 2021 Share Posted 19 May , 2021 I’m not condoning Forum rules, I was simply answering the question WHY? It seems perfectly sensible to me to be allowed to discuss matters outside of the 1914-19 timeframe, with regard to matters that directly impacted the war (like the development od Dreadnought battleships), or that spilled over after the War (like the Danube Commission), but recently the Mods have been adopting very strict interpretations about what is and isn’t allowed, and although it is entirely arbitrary, their decisions are final. In this particular case, we still appear to be able to continue the thread. No complaints my end. MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now