Great War battles in and around the area of the modern city of Modiin

[Eran Tearosh]

 

This thread is completing events I referred to in the thread Royal Gloucester Hussars at El Burj - December 1st 1917 

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/290733-royal-gloucester-hussars-at-el-burj-december-1st-1917/

 

 

The modern city of Modiin (Named after the the ancient hometown of Judas Maccabeus, believed to be in this area) is about 25 years old, build in the hills east of Lod/Ludd & Ramleh, between two roads leading to Jerusalem - Road #443 (The ancient main road, also known as the Mountain-Pass of Beth-Horon) and Road #1 (Today's main Tel-Aviv - Jerusalem road). Modiin is built in an area saturated in natural, historical and archeological sites, yet it's rich Great War history is hardly known. I will refer to a few events around the city, with more details about two events that are not covered properly in the Official Histories - the events on November 24th & 28th 1917, both connected to Norfolk Battalions. I will not refer to details of the events along the mountain-pass, east of Modiin - these events are worth a separate thread.    

 

Some of the following is based on post #1 in a GWF thread I started some 10 years ago:

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/173064-14-and-15-norfolk-at-el-midieh-shilta/

However, I extended the area covered and added a few events. Of course, this is just preliminary text and hopefully - We'll be able to develop some of the loose ends here to separate threads. 

 __________________________

 

The events are all connected to the first advance on Jerusalem, better known as the 'Battle of Nebi-Samuel' (November 18-24, 1917) and the following Ottoman counter-attacks of late November and first days of December 1917.

 

On 18th Nov., 2 mounted divisions entered the hills, in a gap between the two Ottoman armies - The 8th Army in the west (Maritime Plain) and the 7th Army in the east, around and near Jerusalem. The EEF's two mounted divisions that entered the hills were the Yeomanry Mounted Division (YMD) and the Australian Mounted Division (AMD). Two Yeomanry Brigades advanced through what will become the west and north parts of the modern city. The 8th Mounted Brigade crossed what will become Modiin's city center, passed the hill of El-Burj and continued east, towards the vicinity of Beth Ur a-Thacta (Lower Beth-Horon of the Bible). The 22nd Mounted Brigade continued to Shilta, just north of El-Burj. Both brigades didn't encounter any serious encounters with the enemy.

 

The exploits of the Australians that day were quite different. They entered the hills from the south in order to take the hills on the west side of the Vale of Ayalon (Another famous Biblical site) and connect with the Yeomanry to the north. The hills on the east side of the valley (Latrun & Emmaus - more Biblical sites) were still held by Ottoman rear-guards, forcing the Australians to advance by riding through very difficult, stony ground. A daring flanking movement reached Yalo (Biblical Ayalon), while the main attempt to cross the valley and to storm the eastern hills was suddenly stopped, as an order arrived instructing the Australians to withdraw. One squadron of the 9th ALH regiment reached Bir-Ma'in (South-east part of modern Modiin) and Beit-Sira, not far from the Yeomen. The order to withdrew never reached this squadron, and as the regiment, brigade and division withdrew south-west to the coast - the squadron at Bir-Ma'in, unknowingly, was 'left behind'. I know that this squadron joined the Yeomanry Division for a couple of days at the heavy fighting at the top of the mountain-pass of Beth-Horon. Some info about this can be found in the 9th ALH Regiment November 1917 War Diary (Not much in the 9th Regimental History). It would be interesting to find some personal stories of Light Horsemen about that day, and of the squadron that joined the Yeomen in the heavy fighting at the top of the mountain-pass. 

 

On November 19th, the Yeomanry Brigades continued their advance eastwards. The 7th Mounted Brigade came in and took over a part of the line, patrolling a huge area between Na'alin (North of Shilta) and Wilhelma, near the Ottoman railway, to the west. Already at this stage, a gap was formed between the eastern point of the 7th brigade patrols and the western posts of the YMD at Beit Ur a-Thachta (Lower Beit Horon). On the same day, the 52nd Lowland (Scottish) Division was crossing the hills of Modiin eastwards, with great difficulties, due to the lack of proper roads in this area at that time. The transport of the YMD and 52nd Division created a huge traffic jam near Berfilya (Today within modern Modiin), that made movements even more difficult. To make things even worse, the whether broke that day, and the first heavy rains of that year made everyone quite miserable.    

 

On Nov. 22nd, the 163 Brigade, 54th Division, replaced the 7th Mounted Brigade and on Nov. 24th the 1/4 Norfolk Battalion established posts at El-Midieh (Some people believe this is the location of ancient Modi'in – The hometown of Judas Maccabeus). At this stage, the gap in the line was widened, as El-Midieh is located West of Na'alin and Shilta.

 

During Nov. 24th a Turkish force was seen entering Na'alin. 3 patrols of 1/4 Norfolk tried to force the Turks out of Na'alin, unsuccessfully. This event is not recorded in the British OH, but is recorded in the Norfolk Regiment History. There are several mismatches between these two sources regarding the following events to be described. Most of the finer details are coming from the Norfolk Regimental History.

 

On Nov. 24th the 'Battle of Nebi-Samuel' came to it's conclusion and the fresh British XX Corps started gradually to relief of the weary and depleted forces of the XXI Corps. Erich Von Falkenhayn, commanding the Ottoman forces, identified correctly the situation and ordered a series of counter attacks along the entire front. 

 

During the evening hours of Nov. 27th the British Command finally paid attention to the great gap (About 5 miles) in the line and several forces moved from all directions to close the gap. 

The 7th Mounted Brigade was rushed at night from Deiran (Rehovot) to the vicinity of Thachta, crossing parts of the area that will become modern Modiin, then crossing most of the gap, unknowing about the Ottoman force that secretly arrived around Suffa, near their destination. Luckily, those Ottoman forces didn't notice the movement of the 7th brigade.

The 1/4 Royal Scots Fusiliers (RSF), 155th Brigade, 52 (Scottish) Lowland Division moved from Beit-Sira to the area of El-Burj (The Scots were just relieved from from the front line and were on their way to the coast). Owing to the large area to be covered, the 1/4 Royal Scots (RS), 156th Brigade, was also sent to this area and was put under the command of 155th Brigade. Apparently they were sent just west of El-Burj. 

Parallelly, the 4th Light Horse Brigade (AMD), resting at Majdal (Ashkelon), started to march to Deiran, followed by the rest of the division, at first, not as a response to the urgent need to close the gap, but as a part of the plan to replace the YMD. Their destination at this stage was Berfilya (As mentioned, within Modern Modiin), and from there to climb the mountain-pass of Beth-Horon.

 

November 28th was the climax of the Ottoman counter-attack along the mountain-pass, especially around Tachta and Suffa, events described in the British OH under the title 'The Crisis'. Although these events accrued only a few miles east of Modiin, I will not include them here. 

During the 28th, the 4th Light Horse Brigade arrived in the area, but in light of the critical situation that developed along the mountain-pass, they received new orders, while on the march, not to stop at Berfilya and to move directly to Tachta. At first, the Australians used the same route used by the 7th Mounted Brigade, crossing the Modiin area and a part of the gap, but near El-Burj they found the road blocked by enemy fire and used an alternative route, south of El-Burj hill (Today one of central streets of modern Modiin) and crossed the hills to the east, to Tachta.

We shift now to the area north-east & north of Modiin, still during November 28th. The 54th Division's planned contribution to to the effort of closing the gap on their right was to send a company of 1/5 Norfolk that was due to take over Shilta by daylight. As the 1/5 Norfolk was delayed, B Com. of the 1/4 Norfolk arrived at Shilta at 05.15 without opposition and laid communication lines to Btn HQ. At 05.30 the Com. of the 1/5 Norfolk arrived and was ordered to advance to Shilta and replace the 1/4th's company there. This was carried out at 09.30. Communication lines were laid also Eastwards, to the 1/4 RSF HQ. The next stage is bit confused – It appears that 1/4 Norfolk HQ were ordered to assist the 155th Brigade on their right. Two officers (C.O. and Adt – Unknown of which unit) went forward to arrange that assistance and on arrival at one of the Scots HQ's were informed (Either the officers or the 1/4 Norfolk HQ) that the a Com. of the 1/4 RS will replace the Com. of the 1/5 Norfolk at Shilta.

As the Scots didn't arrive till 17.00, just before sunset, it was decided that the best way to assist the 155th Brigade was to continue to hold Shilta.

At 18.35 a Turkish force, estimated 200-300 strong, stormed Shilta after successfully taking advantage of the darkness of the early evening hours, to close in on Shilta undetected. At 18.50 the Norfolk Com. reported by phone about the attack but the report was cut in the middle. The Com. left of Shilta sent a patrol that reported more details at 19.45. It seems that after 3 hours of fierce battle during which the Norfolk's attempted two counter-attacks and the Turks tried again and again to encircle the British force, the remaining officer, 2nd-Liut. Gordon, led his men to a ridge some 800 yards west-south-west of Shilta (Today in the Modi'in). With him or just next to him were some Royal Scots (Not clear when and where they joined).

Later, the Royal Scots positioned themselves to the right of the 1/5 Norfolk. At 03.30 of Nov. 29th a Com. of the 1/4 Norfolk took positions to the left of 1/5 Norfolk and the line was once again continuous and secured.

The casualties of the 1/5 Norfolk during the Turkish attack on Shilta were reported as 1 officer and 27 other ranks missing and 6 other ranks wounded. The fate of those missing Norfolk's is not entirely clear.  

 

The Ottoman counter-attacks continued on November 29th, but the crisis was over and these attacks were repelled. The area of Modiin was quiet and the 3rd Light Horse Brigade started to take over the area of El-Burj from the Scottish 155th Brigade. The Australians held a very thin line across this sector, due to their small numbers. Some of the Scots remained in the line for another day. 

 

On November 30th, the 4th Light Horse Brigade joined the 3rd Brigade, after being relieved in the nearby area of Thachta. This means that starting from this date, Major-General Hodgson, C.O. of the AMD, was responsible for most of the area that was a few days before a huge and vulnerable gap in the British line. The 4th L.H. Brigade took the right (East) part of this sector, north of Beit-Sira, around Kh. Fa'ush (This site was excavated a few years ago and an impressive small Roman fort, protecting the ancient road was uncovered. Just next, a nice Byzantine Monastery was excavated too), that was held during the 29th and most of the 30th by the 8th A.L.H. Regiment. This regiment rode a bit west, and took over from the Scots two hills, just north of El-Burj (Today, just next to Shilat-Junction on road #443, the main entrance to modern Modiin). The 8th A.L.H. Regiment took the Scottish posts in the evening, in the dark, and were completely unfamiliar with the ground.

 

December 1st, 1917 - The Battle of El-Burj. Only a few hours later of the arrival of the Australians, at about 1 am, the Ottomans attacked the posts of the 8th A.L.H. Regiment. I won't go through the details (Maybe in a separate thread) - there's a lot about it in this link:

https://alh-research.tripod.com/Light_Horse/index.blog?topic_id=1115466

This great work brings lots of sources and most of the picture comes quite clear. More details and sources are available, for instance - in the 52nd Lowland (Scottish) Division's history (Probably, and I know Gareth will agree - the best Divisional History of those that participated in this campaign). There are more. 

 

A few days later, on the morning of December 5th, patrols discovered that the enemy withdrew north a bit, and by midday the AMD took new posts of tactical value north of El-Burj, including the reoccupation of Shilta. El-Burj remained the main HQ in this sector. 

 

Eran

 

Edited 16 May , 2021 by Eran Tearosh

[rob carman]

"The casualties of the 1/5 Norfolk during the Turkish attack on Shilta were reported as 1 officer and 27 other ranks missing and 6 other ranks wounded. The fate of those missing Norfolk's is not entirely clear.  "

 

According to Geoff’s search engine  there had been no deaths in either Norfolk battalion on 26 November.  On 27 November there were 4:

J Bowen (was 503) 241137 1/5 DOW b. Ramleh.

JH Bullen (was 4723) 241018 1/5 DOW b. Ramleh

AJ Woodward (was 4492) 241015 1/5 DOW b. Ramleh

EE Hague (was 4719) 200916 1/4 KIA No grave, Jerusalem Memorial

On 28November there were 3 more:

S Craske (was 1788) 240121 1/5 No grave, Jerusalem Memorial

SV Dowe 241065 1/5 DOW b. Ramleh

HW Redding 33096 1/5 KIA b. Ramleh

There were no deaths in either Norfolk battalion on 29 November. 

[PRC]

The relevant bit for F. Lorraine Petre's “The History of the Norfolk Regiment 1685 – 1918” possibly adds some detail that has been lost in the (admirable!) summarising.

 

(Page 153 – 155)

 

On the 28th Shilta was occupied before daybreak by “B” Company, as a company of the 1/5th had not turned up as promised. When it did arrive it took over Shilta.

 

At 3.30 p.m., the 1/4th received orders to assist the 155th brigade on the right in the attack.

 

Shilta was now held by 2nd Lieutenant Gordon of the 1/5th, with his own men and some of the Royal Scots. Here he was attacked by 200 or 300 Turks with bombs and compelled to retire with the remains of his men to a hill 800 yards to the south-east. This exposed the right flank of the 1/4th, which had to be protected by moving up (at 7.30pm) “B” company from support. At 1.30 a.m. on the 29th it was ascertained that 2nd Lieutenant (1/5th Norfolk) had fifty-three men and two Lewis guns but very ammunition. A supply was sent up to him. It was also ascertained that the 153rd brigade was arranging to take over from the 1/5th Norfolk and “B” company of the 1/4th.

 

The casualties of the Norfolk battalions in this affair were:-

1/4th. Two other ranks wounded.

1/5th. One officer and twenty-seven other ranks missing, and six other ranks wounded.

 

The account in the brigade diary states that the company in Shilta were surprised and driven out. It made two counter-attacks, both of which failed. After hanging on to the skirt of the village for some time, it retired south-west to the hill. The 155th had been sent up to fill a gap on the right of the 163rd, which was to assist it as far as possible. All that was possible was to hold on to Shilta, and it was for this reason that the company of the 1/5th Norfolk was sent there.

 

The 163rd brigade, on December 1st, took over from the 162nd about Deir Turiel, where it remained carrying out minor changes of position and patrol.

 

Will see what else I have,

Peter

Edited 17 May , 2021 by PRC
Typo

[rob carman]

I found this reporrt at http://www.foxearth.org.uk/BecclesAreaNewspapers/EastSuffolkGazette1917-1918.html.  It describes movement by the Suffolks intended to take presssure of the isolated Norfolks.  Paragraph 4 mentions Turkish cavalry, something I do not recall from elsewhere. 

 

GREAT DEEDS BY NORFOLKS AND SUFFOLKS.

 

A graphic story of the part played by the East Anglian Troops in the fighting that preceded the fall of Jerusalem is told by a staff officer who has just reached London with dispatches after an exciting journey by rail, camel, aeroplane, steamer and submarine:

 

Some of the most brilliant fighting of the operations which brought about the fall of Jerusalem was done by the East Anglians. After the success of the second battle of Gaza our line moved forward steadily until it was brought to a standstill by superior enemy forces.  The enemy then attempted heavy counter-attacks, and made some headway until they came up against the Norfolks, who were holding a vital line which had just been consolidated. The enemy delivered a furious attack, hurling four separate battalions against the one of the Norfolks. A particularly fierce action developed, in the course of which the Norfolks had to withstand five successive attacks, two of which resulted in hand to hand fighting of the most desperate description.

 

The Turks fought their way into our trenches, and refused to be driven out. They held on with wonderful tenacity, and several Companies had to be shot down to a man, because they would neither run nor surrender. Very soon the position immediately around us was like an upturned graveyard, with the dead bodies littered about in heaps. Every second live men were running up, coming against our fire and toppling down to add to the heaps of dead.

 

In spite of their terrible losses the Turks kept pouring in fresh troops, and by the afternoon the outlook was exceedingly serious. The battalion of Norfolks was all but hemmed in, and the one line by which retreat was possible if the worst happened, was swept by the enemy guns, and they were also moving up machine-gun teams to harass us as well. To ease the pressure on the Norfolks, the Suffolks were ordered forward, and they made their attack at a point where the enemy were developing their enveloping movement. The Suffolks moved steadily forward under a hail of bullets, giving the impression of troops manoeuvring in the training camps at home. As they moved forward three squadrons of Turkish cavalry came to the attack at the gallop. They were on the Suffolks before the latter knew fully what was happening, but the battalion quickly formed square in the good old English fashion, and in that formation met the fierce onset of the enemy horsemen, and many saddles were emptied among the oncoming horsemen.

 

Some of the horses took fright, reared back, wheeled round and rode off, spreading confusion among the ranks of those coming after. That broke the full force of the impact when the opposing forces came together, but some of the Turkish horsemen were plucky fellows, and they actually hurled themselves and their horses on the upraised bayonets of our men.

 

The mere advance of the Suffolks had eased the pressure on the Norfolks, and the latter were now able to make a diversion in favour of the Suffolks. Swinging smartly to the left under very heavy fire they flung back the enemy forces massing behind the cavalry to hold up the Suffolks, and before the enemy could recover from this setback the Norfolks were on them again. The Suffolks advanced at the same time, both battalions making good for a considerable distance and carrying successive positions of great strength.

 

No sooner were these gained than the enemy counter-attacked, but so well did the two East Anglian battalions work together that they beat back all attacks, and gradually levered their way through until they were well astride of the main road to Jerusalem. Once the East Anglians reached that point it was a comparatively simple matter for our men to work forward until all the hills encircling the Holy City were in our hands, and the fall of Jerusalem was only a matter of time.

 

General Allenby personally thanked the East Anglians for their work, and in recognition of it they were given the post of honour when the city was entered later.

East Suffolk Gazette, 8 January 1918

 

Edited 17 May , 2021 by rob carman
spelling

[Guest]

Mate,

 

I record these AIF losses at those dates?

 

Mostly refer to the fighting by the Camel Bde and 2 LH Bde around Bald Hill.

 

27 Nov 1917

 

Killed/Dow

 

DAVIS    Perry Thomas    760    Pte    11 LHR    1R tos C Sqn att DSqn/9 LHR 8-15 (G) rtn 2-16 to S/Smith (from mcdonald) 5-17 shown WIA 13-11-17 reported WIA 12-11-17 chest shot reported with 11 wounded during Turkish attack around Summeil or during fighting to take Hill 280 near Mesmiye and Tummus died in 45 BSH at El Arish buried Kantara War Memorial Cemetery Egypt AKA Percy Davis cousin Reuben Pope 50Bn KIA
 

Wounded

 

ARNESEN    Leonard    2829    Pte    ICC    10R to isol camp 6-17 to CTU 7-17 tos 17Co/4Bn 8-17 WIA 27-11-17 R/thigh shot reported in counter attack on captured trenches at Bald Hill to (med class B1) 14 AGH 1-18 RTA MU malaria
 

BARGH    John Munro    377    Pte    6 LHR    C Sqn D Troop (785) to T/Sgt 8-15 revert 10-15 evac to (2 AGH) hosp (septic sores) 11-15 (G) rtn to Cpl (from toomey) 12-15 to L/Sgt 3-16 to Sgt B Sqn (from johnson) 8-16 shown B Sqn 4-17 to 2 LHTR 6-17 rtn C Sqn 8-17 WIA 3-12-17 R/thigh shot reported in raid by Capt Close on Bald Hill DCM - for his actions as A/Troop leader at Wilhelma att 162nd Bde 54th Div 27-11-17 RTA wounded disch 14-9-18 knickname "Jack" (Boer War ECo/NSWIB (484) and L/Cpl 2nd Scottish Horse (33545) and Johannesburg MR)

 

BILLINGTON    Richard Stewart    707    A/Sgt    05 LHR    2R tos Pte C Sqn 7-15 to Cpl 7-15 to T/Sgt 10-15 to Sgt (from Fraser) 11-15 (G) prom 2/Lt B Sqn possibly B Troop (from Rutherford) 23-7-16 T/att Orderly Officer to CO 2 LH Bde HQ 5-17 rtn B Sqn ? Troop 6-17 att school of Instruction (unknown course) Zeitoun 8-17 rtn 9-17 MC - for his actions at Ras el Ain near Mulebbis 27-11-17 to staff trainee 2 LH Bde HQ 1-18 att Anzac MD HQ 3-18 att 18 Bde RHA 4-18 att staff trg 60th Div 5-18 rtn ? Troop BSqn/05 LHR 5-18 att training in Hindustani with 34th Poona Horse 7-18 rtn 05 LHR 1-19 att Luxor Relief Force 3-19 rtn 4-19 prom T/Capt B Sqn 6-19 later WWII Capt 5 LH 1941
 

CAMPTON    Frank    3014    Pte    ICC    8R to isol camp 6-17 to CTU 7-17 tos 18Co/4Bn ICC 9-17 WIA 27-11-17 L/hand shot reported in counter attack at Bald Hill RTA wounded disch 11-9-18

 

COLLIER    Willliam Tregonwell     Dr    Capt    British Army    RMO 2Bn ICC MC MID WIA 19-4-17 in fighting at 2nd Gaza WIA 27-11-17 back shrapnel reported 2 doctors wounded when German aircraft straffed hosp near Pt 265 at Bald Hill Ex RAMC to 15 GH to 88 GH

 

COLLINS    Frederick James    399    Pte    6 LHR    C Sqn D Troop to Transport Dvr (in unit history) RHQ 3-15 to 2 LH Bde HQ rtn RHQ 5-15 evac to (1 AGH) hosp (ear trouble) 6-15 reported WIA 5-15 by bomb att 4Bn at Lone Pine (see unit history) deserted hosp to return to Anzac rtn to C Sqn D Troop 7-15 WIA 13-12-15 L/leg bomb reported two wounded at Wilson's Lookout evac to (1 AGH) hosp 12-15 (G) rtn 1-16 WIA 28-7-16 R/hip shot reported 2 wounded and 1 injury during attack with WMR at Hod Umm Ugba rtn 10-16 to L/Cpl B Troop? (from calloway) 12-17 recom MID - for his actions att 162nd Bde 54th Div at Wilhelma 27-11-17 reported killed working his Hotchkiss gun at Amman reported body left on battlefield buried Damsascus British War Cemetery Syria (knickname "Snowy") brother Henry 6 LHR
 

DOLMAN    Henry    Dr    Capt    AAMC GR    Tos 14 AGH 10-17 to ACFA 10-17 WIA 27-11-17 neck shrapnel bomb reported hit with Capt's Collier and Seccombe when straffed in air attack on field hosp at Bald Hill att RMO 2Bn ICC 4-18 rtn 5-18 to 5 LHFA 7-18 T/att RMO RHQ/14 LHR 9-18 to RMO RHQ/15 LHR 10-18 to NME UK medical

 

DUNLOP    John Alexander    2168    A/Cpl    6 LHR    15R to 2 LHTR 4-16 to T/Cpl 2 double sqn 7-16 to Troop Cpl 4 Cml Regt 11-16 tos Cpl 17Co/4Bn ICC 2-17 WIA 27-11-17 chest/back & neck shot in counter attack at Bald Hill died at Anzac Div Recieving Station buried Ramleh War Cemetery Palestine
 

FRASER    David    393    A/Sgt    05 LHR    B Sqn D Troop to Pte 2-15 evac to Valletta hosp Malta (dysentry) 9-15 (G) rtn 12-15 to L/Cpl 9-16 to Cpl 10-17 WIA 27-11-17 R/arm minor shot reported 3 wounded during Turkish attack at Bald Hill near Mulebbis RTA 1914 leave later three son's in WWII one a PoW with 8 Div in Singapore & Grandson Capt 2Bn RAR Vietnam
 

HINDMARSH    Stanley Robert    1482    Pte    6 LHR    11R tos A Sqn 12-15 MM - reason not stated possibly at Bald Hill 27-11-17 WIA 4-4-18 minor reported resting in camp near Wadi Kelt around Jericho to hosp (cellulitis L/arm) 5-18 rtn 6-18 to L/Cpl 11-18 to T/Cpl (from o'brien) 1-19 revert 1-19 to T/Cpl B Troop (from arndall) 3-19 to Cpl (from single) 6-19 to T/Sgt 6-19 later WWII Lt VDC 
 

JOHNSTON    Wilfred Harry    2460    Pte    9 LHR    17R to 3 LHTR 6-16 tos 13Co/3Bn ICC 8-16 to L/Cpl 3-17 WIA 27-11-17 arms & legs shrapnel reported in fighting at Bald Hill RTA wounded disch 6-5-18
 

KINKEAD    James John Benedict    1491    Pte    6 LHR    11R Tos possibly RHQ? 1-16 to L/Cpl 6-16 prom 2/Lt 7-9-16 to 12Co/3Bn ICC 10-16 to Scout/Intell Officer HQ/3Bn 11-16 MC & MID - for his actions commanding an advance post under shell fire for six days at Bald Hill 27-11-17 to 3-12-17 T/att 5Co 3-18 rtn 4-18 to ? Troop ?Sqn/15 LHR 7-18 to Staff Officer & Intell Officer 5 LH Bde HQ 8-18 to hosp 9-18 rtn 5 LHTR 12-18 to AFPO Kantara 12-18 att prom T/Capt A/Duputy Director Aust Postal Svcs (APostC) AIF HQ 3-19 prom Hon/Capt 9-19 

 

LEE    Charles Arthur        Maj    11 LHR    B Sqn OC att DSqn/05 LHR 8-15 (G) rtn OC B Sqn 2-16 (Troop Lts Gee Koch Stumm Farlow) 8-16 MID - for his work at Bir el Aweidiya as part of Smiths Colunm 7-8-16 to hosp (malaria) 8-16 to 4 Cml Regt 9-16 prom LtCol HQ/4Bn ICC 2-17 recom DSO (his own request) - for operation at Auja RTA SNLR Court of Inquiry over the loss of Bald Hill to the Turks on the 27-11-17 disch 14-2-18 spent a good deal of time in hospital and suddenly passed away at Tenterfield (Boer War Cpl ASqn/NSWMR (100), Lt 1 NSWMR & Capt 2 NSWMR and 3 NSWIB) father Hon Charles Arthur Lee MLA prominent politician in the NSW government brother Lionel 11 LHR died
 

MADDRELL    Henry Onyx Coghill        2/Lt    7 LHR    B Sqn B Troop (in Army lists dated 12-14) shown B Sqn B Troop (unit RO's) 5-15 shown B Sqn 2 Troop (in Army lists dated 7-15) evac to Blue Sisters hosp Malta (fever) 9-15 to hosp Wandsworth UK 9-15 (G) rtn 1-16 to Transport officer 1-16 to 2 LHTR 3-16 rtn B Sqn B Troop (from Lt Chapman) 4-16 prom Capt 2ic B Sqn (from barton) 10-16 shown 2ic B Sqn (unit RO's) 11-16 to CSqn/2 LHTR 7-17 rtn C Sqn? 9-17 MID - reason not stated possibly for the fighting at Bald Hill 27-11-17 to CSqn/2 LHTR 1-18 rtn A Sqn 4-18 to T/OC A Sqn 8-18 to hosp (malaria) 8-18 rtn 9-18 RTA 1914 leave (D Troop ASqn/11 LH CMF 4 years)

 

McMAHON    Edward James    17226    Pte    2 LHFA    27R tos ACFA 7-17 to Dvr 10-17 WIA 27-11-17 hand bomb graze minor reported hit with Capt's Collier, Dolman and Seccombe when straffed in air attack on field hosp at Bald Hill WIA 20-3-18 R/thigh accident reported in fall or kick from mule at Nimrim near Bethlehem to 14 AGH 7-18 to AAMC Trg unit 12-18 RTA MU debility AKA Edward John McMahon
 

MYATT    Henry Martin        2/Lt    10 LHR     16R to 2 LHTR 6-16 to Troop officer 2 double Sqn 7-16 to Troop officer 4 Cml Regt 11-16 to 17Co/4Bn ICC 2-17 WIA 27-11-17 R/thigh shot reported during attack at Bald Hill prom Capt 3-18 amputation R/leg to fit artificial limb (3 London BGH UK 6-18 RTA wounded (D Troop DSqn/25 LH CMF 7 years)

 

PAISLEY    Leslie William    458    Scout    10 LHR    C Sqn scout to L/Cpl 2-15 to Scout/Intell Cpl 8-15 WIA 29-8-15 knee in attack at Hill 60 evac to hosp UK 9-15 (G) to 3 LHTR 4-16 to T/Sgt (3 double sqn) 7-16 to Troop Sgt 4 Cml Regt 11-16 to Sgt (scout sniper) 18Co/4Bn ICC 2-17 att sniping School of Instruction El Arish 9-17 rtn 11-17 WIA 27-11-17 L/eye & leg minor shrapnel graze possibly during attack at Bald Hill to LH Dtls 7-18 to staff rest camp 8-18 brother Selwyn 10 LHR
 

RUMMEL    Edward    372    Pte    05 LHR    A Sqn (G) to AProvC MMP AMD HQ 3-16 T/att HQ 52 Div 5-16 to T/Cpl 7-16 to S/Smith 9-16 to 2 LHTR 2-17 qual Lewis MG 5-17 rtn BSqn? /05 LHR 7-17 WIA 27-11-17 head shot reported 3 wounded during fighting on outpost line around Mulebbis died at 45 BSH buried Masaid Military Cemetery near El Arish by chaplain Powell reburied Kantara War Memorial Cemetery Egypt

 

SECCOMBE    Samuel Hubert    Dr    Capt    AAMC officers    tos ACFA 6-17 WIA 27-11-17 back & neck minor bomb reported with Capt Collier and Dolman when straffed in air attack on field hosp at Bald Hill to 1 LHFA 12-17 prom Maj 1-18 att CO Aust MD Rec Station 9-18 rtn 11-18 to 4 LHFA 3-19 prom T/LtCol 5 LHFA 4-19 Order of the Nile 4th class - reason not stated to NME UK 8-19 AKA Secombe (prom Lt AAMC Victorian Rangers 1-6-00 to Capt 1-10-05 CMF CAFO retired 15-1-25) 

 

WAIT    Everard Myles    5927    Spr    3 Div Sig Co     3R to (sig sect) Eng Trg unit 4-16 tos 1 LH Sig Sqn 4-16 to hosp 11-16 to (med class B2) 1 LHTR 1-17 rtn to 4 LH Sig Troop 7-17 WIA 27-11-17 R/leg injury accident reported kicked by horse during move to Zernukah to Sig Trg unit 1-18 rtn 7-18 AKA Waite
 

YATES    Harry Neville    2662    Pte    7 LHR    18R (2538) tos A Sqn bugler (from Rogan) 8-16 att 2 LH Bde HQ 10-17 WIA 26/27-11-17 shell shock in Turk attack near Bald Hill rtn 10-18
 

28 Nov 1917

 

Killed/DoW

 

DUNLOP    John Alexander    2168    A/Cpl    6 LHR    15R to 2 LHTR 4-16 to T/Cpl 2 double sqn 7-16 to Troop Cpl 4 Cml Regt 11-16 tos Cpl 17Co/4Bn ICC 2-17 WIA 27-11-17 chest/back & neck shot in counter attack at Bald Hill died at Anzac Div Recieving Station buried Ramleh War Cemetery Palestine
 

Wounded

 

BOTT    George Lancelot    253    A/Cpl    05 LHR    A Sqn evac to (1 AGH) hosp (septic knee) 6-15 rtn 8-15 to Prov Sgt 8-15 revert Cpl evac to (2 AGH) hosp (dysentry & enteric) 10-15 (G) RTA MU enteric reemb 20R to 2 LHTR 8-16 qual Lewis MG 11-16 Tos 12-16 to T/Sgt A Sqn (from smith) 1-17 qual hotchkiss MG 3-17 to Sgt 3-17 WIA 28-11-17 R/shoulder minor shot reported 1 officer and 1 man wounded during Turkish attack at Bald Hill near Mulebbis to 2 LHTR 1-18 rtn 4-18 to hosp (malaria) 10-18 RTA 1914 leave Ex CCo AN&MEF (1716) RTA due to firemans strike on "Kanowna" disch 18-9-14 (Hungabarra 2 IR CMF later WWII Cpl 1 Garr Bn)

 

COLEMAN    Sidney Harold    2655    Pte    01 LHR    18R to 1 LHTR 6-16 to 1 double sqn 7-16 to 4 Cml Regt 11-16 to Res Co 2-17 tos 11Co/3Bn 4-17 to hosp (ulcer) 6-17 rtn Res Co 7-17 to 18Co/4Bn ICC 11-17 WIA 28-11-17 head or R/ear shot reported hit to head by shrapnel when area shelled at Bald Hill died at 2 LHFA Buried at Ramleh War Cemetery Palestine
 

JONES    Arthur Frederick    338    Pte    02 LHR    B Sqn to Cpl (from Ferris-Scott) 9-15 to Sgt (from Willett) 12-15 (G) att WFF att T/SSM 1 LHTR (from McLennan) 6-17 rtn SSM A Sqn? 8-17 prom 2/Lt ? Sqn ? Troop 4-11-17 shown his Troop patrol around Nahr el Auja 28-11-17 att Jnr officer school at Kelab 2-18 rtn 3-18 possibly shown C Sqn 10-18 mentioned for his scout work to hosp (malaria) 10-18 to 1 LH Bde Dtls 11-18 RTA 1914 leave (4Sqn/14 LH QMI CMF 2 years)
 

MAHONEY    Bernard        Lt    05 LHR    2R Tos 4-15 tos C Sqn 7-15 (G) to Sig officer RHQ 3-16 att school of Instruction (Sig course) Zeitoun 4-16 att school of Instruction (telephone course) Zeitoun 6-17 WIA 28-11-17 minor shrapnel reported 1 officer and 1 man wounded during Turkish attack at Bald Hill near Mulebbis prom Capt 2-18 att school of Instruction (cavalry course) Zeitoun 2-18 rtn 4-18 to OC ASqn/2 LHTR 4-18 to 2ic 2 LHTR 8-18 att 2 LH Bde HQ 1-19 to paymaster Anzac MD HQ 2-19 to UK leave 8-19 to NME UK university tutorial Ex Pte FCo/1Bn AN&MEF (735) DNE prom 2/Lt 24-10-14 (prov 2/Lt CSqn/1 LH 1-7-12 to Lt D Troop ASqn/1 LH 1-7-15 CMF) 
 

NICHOLSON    George    2310    Pte    8 LHR    16R to 3 LHTR 6-16 tos 11Co/3Bn ICC 7-16 WIA 28-11-17 R/foot minor accident while under fire he took cover in trench only to have a camel fall on him at Bald Hill qual unknown MG course 1-18 qual bombing 3-18 to hosp (old injury) 5-18 to BSqn/8 LHR 7-18 (Boer War 3 VIB (419)
 

29 Nov 1917

 

Killed/Dow

 

BLOODWORTH    Raymond John    1210    Pte    6 LHR    8R tos A Sqn A Troop 11-15 (G) to hosp (mumps & VD) 2-16 rtn 7-16 WIA 25-3-17 R/foot injury not stated rtn A Sqn 5-17 reported killed and body left in Turkish lines in raid by Capt Tooth with A & B Troops on Bald Hill NKG listed on Jerusalem Memorial Palestine (41 IR to 42 IR CMF 18 months)

 

CHRISTIE    Henry Joseph    1065    Pte    6 LHR    6R tos A Sqn A Troop 10-15 (G) to L/Cpl (from mcculloch) 9-16 reported killed and body left in Turkish lines in raid by Capt Tooth with A & B Troops on Bald Hill NKG listed on Jerusalem Memorial Palestine

 

COLEMAN    Sidney Harold    2655    Pte    01 LHR    18R to 1 LHTR 6-16 to 1 double sqn 7-16 to 4 Cml Regt 11-16 to Res Co 2-17 tos 11Co/3Bn 4-17 to hosp (ulcer) 6-17 rtn Res Co 7-17 to 18Co/4Bn ICC 11-17 WIA 28-11-17 head or R/ear shot reported hit to head by shrapnel when area shelled at Bald Hill died at 2 LHFA Buried at Ramleh War Cemetery Palestine
 

wounded

 

ARCHIBALD    Thomas    241    Pte    11 LHR    B Sqn att DSqn/05 LHR 8-15 evac to hosp Malta (mumps) 10-15 (G) rtn 2-16 to hosp (heat stroke) 8-16 to 12Co/3Bn ICC 9-16 WIA 29-11-17 R/thigh shot possibly hit by shell after raid by 15Co on Bald Hill rtn 2-18 FGCM 6-5-18 false statement in paybook sentenced 6 months HL to Gabbrai Miliatry Prison 5-18 to 15 LHR 7-18 NTOS to 4 LHTR 11-18 to hosp (malaria) 11-18 rtn 11 LHR 3-19 

 

BEST    Ronald    3231    Pte    6 LHR    26R to 2 LHTR 7-17 Tos A Sqn 8-17 WIA 29-11-17 chest, R/arm & knee bomb reported during raid by Capt Tooth with A & B Troops on Bald Hill rtn 4-18 (SU Scouts CMF 2 years)

 

BICKFORD    Aubrey    1895    Pte    28Bn    3R Tos BCo? 10-15 WIA 9-12-15 hand/finger bomb at Gallipoli evac to (2 AGH) hosp 12-15 (G) rtn 1-16 to 1Co/1Bn ICC 2-16 to T/Cpl (from cole) 4-16 prom 2/Lt 14Co/3Bn 1-7-16 WIA 19-4-17 R/leg shot in fighting near Jack & Jill Redoubt at 2nd Gaza rtn 6-17 to T/Adjt HQ/3Bn 6-17 MC - for his actions when the Bn was cut off he went back for resupply and guided it through heavy fire at Khuweilfe 6-11-17 WIA 29-11-17 R/thigh shot reported hit by shrapnel during morning when area shelled at Bald hill rtn 1-18 T/att AIF HQ 3-18 to ? Troop CSqn/15 LHR 7-18 att DMC Cavalry school 7-18 rtn 8-18 to hosp (malaria) 8-18 rtn 10-18 Prom T/Capt (from dixon) 4-19 (Boer War 3 Troop ASqn/6 ACH (72) later WWII Lt Garr Bn)

 

BOOTH    Walter James    1064    Pte    6 LHR    6R (1073) tos A Sqn 10-15 WIA 4-12-15 L/shoulder minor shot reported three wounded at Wilson's Lookout (G) to hosp (diptheria & VD) 7-16 rtn A Sqn 3-17 WIA 29-11-17 L/knee shot reported during raid by Capt Tooth with A & B Troops on Bald Hill rtn 4-18 to hosp (malaria) 5-18 rtn 8-18 to L/Cpl 11-18 RTA early repat (29 IR Aust Rifle Regt CMF 2 years later WWII S/Sgt 2/3 MTCo 8 Div Singapore & PoW 7-3-42 Java
 

FARRELL    Thomas    115    Pte    6 LHR    1R (571) tos C Sqn 2-15 to RHQ 10-15 evac to hosp (jaundice) 12-15 (G) rtn 1-16 to hosp (debility) 9-16 rtn C Sqn 5-17 shown C Sqn 6-17 WIA 29-11-17 R/arm shot at No 2 post during Turk attack from Bald Hill at Dhahr Selme rtn 4-18 RTA 1914 leave Ex D Troop ASqn/6 LHR DNE related Arthur 4 LHR

 

GRAHAM    Alfred John    123    Pte    6 LHR    A Sqn D Troop (81) to L/Cpl 2-15 to Cpl 8-15 evac to Valletta hosp Malta (enteric) 9-15 to (3 West GH) hosp Cardiff UK 10-15 (G) rtn 2-16 to hosp (tonsilitis) 7-16 rtn 8-16 to L/Sgt (from gurney) 1-17 to Sgt A Sqn A Troop? (from kramer) 3-17 shown A Sqn 4-17 recom DCM awarded MID - for his actions in A/Troop Leader suporting the 2 LH MGS 2-11-17 and as A/Troop Leader the raid at Bald Hill 29-11-17 to 2 LHTR 8-18 RTA 1914 leave

 

HEATHCOTE    Harold Rowland    64    Pte    8 LHR    A Sqn disemb Fremantle 15-2-15 relist 5R/10 LHR (980) Tos 7-15 (G) RTA MU enteric relist 18R/8 LHR to 3 LHTR 8-16 tos 14Co/3Bn ICC 9-16 to hosp (colic) 8-17 rtn 9-17 WIA 29-11-17 L/hand shot possibly hit by shell after raid by 15Co on Bald Hill RTA wounded disch 12-9-18

 

HECKENBERG    James    2484    Pte    6 LHR    17R to 2 LHTR 6-16 tos A Sqn 7-16 shown A Sqn 4-17 WIA 29-11-17 minor reported during raid by Capt Tooth with A & B Troops on Bald Hill to L/Cpl 11-18 RTA MU DAH later WWII

 

HOOPER    William Singleton    2148    A/Sgt    10 LHR    15R to 3 LHTR 4-16 to T/Far/Sgt 3 double sqn 7-16 revert to 4 Cml Regt 11-16 tos 18Co/4Bn ICC 2-17 WIA 29-11-17 L/thigh shrapnel possibly hit shell after raid by 15Co on Bald Hill rtn 5-18 to 15 LHR 7-18 to L/Cpl 10-18 to Cpl 10-18 to T/Sgt 11-18 att AIF HQ 1-19 (British 1st City of London Yeomanry 6 months) AKA William Singleton-Hooper
 

HYNES    Thomas Sherlock    1953    Pte    11 LHR    12R to 3 LHTR 11-16 qual lewis MG 2-17 tos 4 LH MGS 2-17 WIA 29-11-17 L/Leg shot reported near Beit ur et Tahta to (med class B2) MG Trg Sqn 1-18 rtn 10-18 

 

LEVICK    Arthur Pitt Ward    2200    Pte    6 LHR    15R to 2 LHTR 4-16 to 2 double sqn 7-16 to 4 Cml Regt 11-16 tos 17Co/4Bn ICC 2-17 WIA 29-11-17 minor shot possibly hit shell after raid by 15Co on Bald Hill to 14 LHR 7-18 att 2 LH Sig Troop 9-18 rtn 3-19 to 5 LH Bde HQ 5-19
 

MAITLAND    Archibald Lumsden    954    Pte    6 LHR    5R Tos RHQ 10-15 (G) to 2 LHTR 3-16 to T/Troop Sgt 2 double sqn 7-16 to Troop Sgt 4 Cml Regt 11-16 shown MG Sect? to Sgt 17Co/4Bn ICC 2-17 to CSM (rawden) 8-17 prom 2/Lt 30-8-17 to 14Co/3Bn 10-17 WIA 29-11-17 back shot possibly when shelled after raid at Bald Hill rtn 1-18 att school of Instruction (unknown course) Zeitoun 3-18 rtn 4-18 to ? Troop ?Sqn/15 LHR 7-18 att Cavalry school Richon 7-18 rtn 8-18 later WWII Sgt 2 Base Ammo depot brother Alfred 6 LHR
 

McCORMACK    Thomas Francis    1326    Pte    6 LHR    10R tos A Sqn 12-15 to B Sqn 10-16 to C Sqn 2-17 WIA 29-11-17 L/hand & R/thigh shot in fighting in Turkish attack at Bald Hill to 2 LHTR 2-18 WIA 10-6-18 L/ankle sprained when fell over in horse lines at Moascar rtn 6 LHR 10-18 to L/Cpl 1-19 
 

PURVES    William Winter Home    364    Pte    12 LHR    B Sqn att DSqn/7 LHR 8-15 WIA 17-9-15 septic arm minor possibly when shelled by 75mm guns at Ryries Post rtn 9-15 att T/Cpl Indian Mule Corps 10-15 (G) to 1Co AASC 1 Div Trn 2-16 to 26Co 4 Div Trn 3-16  rtn 12 LHR 3-16 to Interpreter Bikanir Camel Corps 7-16 to A Sqn 8-16 rtn L/Cpl B Sqn (B) WIA 29-11-17 groin shrapnel reported 2 wounded when pack horses shelled at watering point at Khurbetha near El Burj to Cpl 8-18 to T/Sgt 11-18 (British United Prov Vol Rifles) (CMF RSM RHQ/21 LH (2188) shown 21-1-38 to Wo1 AIC later WWII RSM 1 Cav Div to Capt AIC disch 1949)

 

ROE    Rowland John    475    Pte    03 LHR    C Sqn 1 Troop to Dvr 10-14 evac to hosp Malta (sickness) 8-15 (G) rtn Dvr C Sqn 12-15 att WFF at Bir Hooker revert 4-16 to A Field Troop 1 LH FSE 6-16 WIA 29-11-17 R/shoulder injury accident thrown from horse possibly under Lt Waterman to develop watering at Ayan Kara to 2 LH FSE 5-18 RTA 1914 leave (B Troop CSqn/26 LH CMF)

 

RONALD    Robert Bruce    453    Pte    6 LHR    C Sqn C Troop (767) to L/Cpl 1-15 WIA 2-7-15 L/arm shot reported 1 wounded at No 1 Southern sect trenches near Holly Spur evac to hosp 7-15 rtn 10-15 to T/Sgt 10-15 to Sgt 11-15 (G) prom 2/Lt A Sqn A Troop (from Faunce) 5-9-16 T/att Div Transport depot Kantara 9-16 rtn A Sqn A Troop 11-16 att school of Instruction (28th officers general course) Zeitoun 6-17 rtn 7-17 WIA 29-11-17 face/eye, L/arm & thigh shot reported A & B Troops under Capt Tooth raided Bald Hill & MC - for his actions at Bald Hill RTA wounded disch 3-8-18 brother Ken 6 LHR
 

SMITH    Ross MacPherson    217    Sgt    03 LHR    B Sqn D Troop? to RSM RHQ (from Coxall) 8-15 prom 2/Lt ? Sqn ? Troop 5-9-15 evac to hosp Gibralter (enteric) 10-15 to hosp UK 11-15 (G) rtn to MG Sect 5-16 to 1 LH MGS 7-16 to Obsvr trg 10-16 to (obsvr) C Flight 67 Sqn (1 Sqn) AFC 12-16 att 3 SMA Aboukir 4-17 att 57 Res Sqn RFC 5-17 att 23 Res Sqn RFC 6-17 rtn qual (pilot) 7-17 WIA 1-9-17 head shot reported Smith in BE 12a (A6311) & Ellis in BE 12a (A6328) in action with ObLt Schmarje of German Jasta 300 near Gaza and plane crashed on landing prom Capt OC C Flight 11-17 WIA 29-11-17 minor accident in crash with engine trouble near Sheik Nuirang MC - for his actions when rescuing at downed pilot + bar to MC - for his actions on two sorties during 1918 DFC - for his actions around June July 1918 around Jenin + 1 bar to DFC - for his shooting down an aircraft near Aleppo 10-10-18 + 2 bar to DFC - for his actions bring down an aircraft 19-10-18 AFCr - for services during the war 10-19 Hejaz Order of the Nile 4th class - reasons not stated (12 victories) flew a Vickers Vimy from UK to Australia Dec 1919 with brother arrived 10-12-19 T/att 31 Sqn RAF while in India 7-19 help start Qantas later Sir KBE - for his flight from UK to Australia 12-19 rtn to UK for Air Race died 14-4-22 killed with Bennett during a test flight of their Vickers Viking Amphibian at Weybridge UK (Horse Cadets to 10 IR CMF 12 months) author "The First Aeroplane Voyage from England to Australia" 1920 brother Keith RFC
 

Cheers

S.B

[Eran Tearosh]

Peter & Rob,

 

Thank you!

 

Undoubtfully, the issue of the the 1/5 Norfolk Battalion's casualties at Shilta on November 28th needs to be looked at. The difference between Geoff's search engine and the quote from the Norfolk Regiment's History is exactly the biggest question mark about this battle. I know almost every inch of this area and can walk you through every detail of this battle, from the English side. Unfortunately, I don't have any Ottoman records on this. Many Years ago I heard a rumor that some pieces of cloths, possibly uniforms, were found on the hill of Shilta. today that hill is a reconstructed ancient village.   

 

Peter,

Some years ago (more then 10...),  the Norfolk Museum sent me a few pages - Probably the same you quote. Are the War Diaries available?  

 

A correction to the text of the Norfolk Regiment's History: 

Last line: "The 163rd brigade, on December 1st, took over from the 162nd about Deir Turiel, where it remained carrying out minor changes of position and patrol". The correct name is Deir Tureif.

 

 

Rob,

At the time, you sent me some details from the 1/4 Battalion's War Diary. Maybe you have the same for the 1/5 Battalion?

The report from East Suffolk Gazette is a wow! As to Turkish Cavalry - I've seen quite a lot of references of them all along the campaign, from 1915 till 1918. I think that the Ottoman force that entered Na'alin on November 24th was cavalry, and as I mentioned above - the 1/4 Battalion tried to remove them from there, unsuccessfully. Worth taking a look at that date (24/11/1917) in the War Diary and the Norfolk Regiment's History.

As to the main event mentioned in the East Suffolk Gazette's report - I think this refers to the battle around Kh. (Ruin) Zeifizfiye, on December 11th, the same day General Allenby entered Jerusalem. At this stage the Norfolk Battalions were no longer at the same sector of the line were they were when the events I described above took place. The East-Anglian Division concentrated in early December near the railway, north-west of modern Modiin (A part of the Division was already in that area from late November), as mentioned in the quote Peter brought from the Norfolk Regiment's History.

I would suggest to check the 1/4 Norfolk Battalion's War Diary and Norfolk Regiment's History about this date. In addition,  if someone has access to the Suffolk History and/or War Diaries - We might find there supporting evidence. 

Kh. Zeifizfiye is today within the modern town of Shoham, east of Ben-Gurion airport.

 

A correction to the text of the East Suffolk Gazette:

3rd line from the top says "After the success of the second battle of Gaza". Of course, it's the third battle of Gaza, not the second.

 

Eran

 

Edited 17 May , 2021 by Eran Tearosh

[Eran Tearosh]

On 18/05/2021 at 00:08, stevebecker said:

29 Nov 1917

 

wounded

 

HYNES    Thomas Sherlock    1953    Pte    11 LHR    12R to 3 LHTR 11-16 qual lewis MG 2-17 tos 4 LH MGS 2-17 WIA 29-11-17 L/Leg shot reported near Beit ur et Tahta to (med class B2) MG Trg Sqn 1-18 rtn 10-18 

 

PURVES    William Winter Home    364    Pte    12 LHR    B Sqn att DSqn/7 LHR 8-15 WIA 17-9-15 septic arm minor possibly when shelled by 75mm guns at Ryries Post rtn 9-15 att T/Cpl Indian Mule Corps 10-15 (G) to 1Co AASC 1 Div Trn 2-16 to 26Co 4 Div Trn 3-16  rtn 12 LHR 3-16 to Interpreter Bikanir Camel Corps 7-16 to A Sqn 8-16 rtn L/Cpl B Sqn (B) WIA 29-11-17 groin shrapnel reported 2 wounded when pack horses shelled at watering point at Khurbetha near El Burj to Cpl 8-18 to T/Sgt 11-18 (British United Prov Vol Rifles) (CMF RSM RHQ/21 LH (2188) shown 21-1-38 to Wo1 AIC later WWII RSM 1 Cav Div to Capt AIC disch 1949)

 

 

Hi Steve

 

Many thanks!

 

As you wrote, most of these relate to events around Bald Hill (The majority), Mulebbis, Wilhelma, Ras el Ein etc'. On the 27th, in the part referring to COLLINS Frederick James, you mentioned a place called Hod Umm Uqba - Never heard that name before. The nearest relevant place I can think about is Kh. Umm el-Ikba, east of Mejdal Yaba. 

 

 

Above, I quoted you about two, that are relevant to the area of Modiin: 

 

HYNES  Thomas Sherlock - As I mentioned, the 4th L.H. Brigade (11 L.H.R. being a part of that brigade) arrived at the area of Beit ur et Tachta (I prefer this spelling to the 'Tahta' we find in most sources - it preserves better the Arabic pronunciation), which is a few miles east of Modiin. The events around Beit ur et Tachta definitely deserve a separate thread, in case it hasn't been dealt with before (Most likely it was) 

 

PURVES  William Winter Home - This is quite interesting. There are two villages in this area that can fit the name Khurbetha. Khurbetha Ibn Harith is about 7 Km north-east of El-Burj, and way north of the line on that date, within the enemy's area. So most likely it would be Khurbetha Ibn es Suba' (or Saba), the name that appears on the maps used then (today pronounced 'Kharbatha al Misbah'). This village is about 4.5 Km east-south-east of El-Burj, yet only 2 Km from Beit-Sira, which is (and was) a much bigger village then tiny El-Burj. Even better - this Khurbetha is even closer than that to Thachta! So why did they refer to El-Burj ('watering point at Khurbetha near El Burj')? Don't have an answer to that.  

 

Eran

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 6 June , 2021 by Eran Tearosh

[rob carman]

19 hours ago, Eran Tearosh said:

As to the main event mentioned in the East Suffolk Gazette's report - I think this refers to the battle around Kh. (Ruin) Zeifizfiye, on December 11th,

 

You are spot on Eran.  It refers to movements by C and D Coys, 1/5 Suffolks on 11 December.   

 

I don't have the 1/5 Norfolk or 1/5 Suffolks war diaries.  

 

Rob.

 

 

[PRC]

On 17/05/2021 at 22:37, rob carman said:

According to Geoff’s search engine  there had been no deaths in either Norfolk battalion on 26 November.  On 27 November there were 4:

J Bowen (was 503) 241137 1/5 DOW b. Ramleh.

JH Bullen (was 4723) 241018 1/5 DOW b. Ramleh

AJ Woodward (was 4492) 241015 1/5 DOW b. Ramleh

EE Hague (was 4719) 200916 1/4 KIA No grave, Jerusalem Memorial

On 28November there were 3 more:

S Craske (was 1788) 240121 1/5 No grave, Jerusalem Memorial

SV Dowe 241065 1/5 DOW b. Ramleh

HW Redding 33096 1/5 KIA b. Ramleh

There were no deaths in either Norfolk battalion on 29 November. 

 

It would seem likely that as he has no known grave, Private 240121 Sidney Craske of the 1/5th Norfolks was originally among the 27 other ranks of the Battalion recorded as missing so that was my starting point.

 

I could not however find anything for him or Private 200916 Ernest Edward Hague on the International Committee of the Red Cross site.

 

Expanding the search for the other names, the official Daily Casualty List for December 19th 1917, (page 15 of the Weekly Casualty List dated 24th December 1917) has Bullen 241018 J.H. (Roughton) and Woodward 241015 A.J. (Downham Market) recorded as Died of Wounds, while Listed as Wounded are Andrews 200361 C (Thurston); Blyth 240228 A. (Kings Lynn), Chapman 200144 Sjt. F.R. (Stowmarket), Drury 25774 G.J. (Brisley), Riches 201078 J.W. (Swaffham)  and White 27486 R.J. (Newmarket).

 

Under “Missing Believed Killed” there is Hague 200916 E.E. (Norwich), but there are no other ranks of the Norfolk Regiment listed as “Missing”.

1991986715_NorfolkBattalionCasualtiesShiltaNovember27thto29th1917v1.0.pdf

I also took a look for Norfolk Regiment other ranks in the 1918 Casualty Lists under the heading reported a Prisoner of War in Turkish Hands and for the few I coud find that were not historic,  (“Previously believed a Prisoner of War now confirmed”), there were no records at the ICRC.

 

Checking local Norfolk papers, I believed Sidney Craske, (shown as 240121 F. Craske,  Lynn), was on a list of missing Norfolk Regiment men that appeared in the Lynn Advertiser, (edition dated 22nd February 1918). Other Norfolk Regiment men recorded as missing are:-

 

240217 L. Bell (Northwold)

240399 C.B. Goate (Lynn)

240290 E.H. Hovell (Downham)

241116 W. Jex (Lynn)

240401 C.Q.M.S. F.M. Johnson (Lynn)

240471 F.C. Meggitt (Lynn)

240567 C.B. Patrick (Lynn)

240860 E. Roper (Lynn)

241022 A. Seaman (Wisbech)

241019 A. Stalham (Hunstanton).

 

On the same page is this news story.

 

 

Image courtesy FindMyPast. Corporal William Blott has exisiting discharge records and paperwork at the ICRC that shows he was captured 12/08/1915 - so probably Anafarta.

 

The edition of the Lynn Advertiser for the 15th March 1918 provides a partial update on the missing men.

 

Previously reported missing, now reported prisoners of war in Turkish hands.

240290 E.H. Hovell (Downham).

241116 W. Jex (Lynn)

240471 F.C. Meggitt (Lynn)

241049 A. Stalham (Hunstanton).

 

The Lynn Advertiser covers mainly the north-west of Norfolk and across the border to Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire. The traditional area of the 1/5th Battalion was the north and west of Norfolk. The place listed for next of kin in the original missing report in the Lynn Advertiser of the 22nd February 1918 all fell within that catchment area. However by this stage of the war that is itself suspicious, and therefore this may only be a partial list. I’ve checked my notes for two Norwich based papers, the Eastern Daily Press and the Norwich Mercury for the same period in February 1918 and I don’t have a record of a comparable list, but that may simply be an error in my record keeping. The micro-filmed copies of the Eastern Daily Press for this period held at the County Archive were particularly low quality and difficult to read.

 

So my first draft of a potential casualty list for the two Battalions with sources and supporting documents is attached. I’m sure there are likely to be more names to be considered – finding the official Daily Casualty List that includes the same names as the men reported missing in the Lynn Advertiser would probably be a good place to start

 

Summarising it:-

 

1/4th Battalion

200916 Private Ernest Edward Hague, Killed in Action 27/11/1917.

200361 Private Cambridge Andrews, B Company, Wounded - GSW

200144 Serjeant Francis Robert Chapman, Wounded – subsequently discharged as a result of wounds.

25744 Private George James Drury, B Company, Wounded – GSW

201078 Private John William Riches, Wounded.

27486 Private Robert James White, B Company, Wounded – GSW Right ankle and foot.

 

Total 1 OR Killed in Action, 5 OR Wounded.

(Petre says 2 OR wounded)

 

1/5th Battalion

33096 Private Herbert William Redding, Killed in Action 28/11/1917.

240121 Private Sidney Craske. Died on or since 28/11/1917, (initially reported missing).

241137 Private John Bowen. Died 27/11/1917 cause tbc.

241018 Private John Henry Bullen. Died of Wounds 27/11/1917.

241015 Private Albert James Woodward. Died of Wounds 27/11/1917 (Originally buried Ramleh Convent Garden Cemetery).

241065 Private Sidney Valentine Dowe, Died of Wounds 28/11/1917 at 32 Field Ambulance.

240228 Private Arthur J Blyth, Wounded. (Survived the war).

240217 Private Lionel Bell, Missing subsequently Turkish PoW, captured 28/11/1917

240399 Private Charles Bartle Goate, Missing subsequently Turkish PoW.

240290 Private Ernest Henry Hovell, Missing subsequently Turkish PoW.

241116 Private John William Jex, Missing subsequently Turkish PoW.

240401 Company Quarter Master Serjeant Frank Mallett Johnson, Missing subsequently Turkish PoW, captured 28/11/1917.

240471 Private Frederick Charles Meggitt, Missing subsequently Turkish PoW. Died Nigde, Asia Minor 04/06/1918.

240567 Private Charles Bridges Patrick, B Company. Died Haifa 14/12/1917 so likely to have been Missing subsequently Turkish PoW.

240860 Private Ernest Roper, Missing subsequently Turkish PoW.

241022 Private Albert Seaman, Missing subsequently Turkish PoW.

241049 Serjeant Arthur Stalham.  Missing subsequently Turkish PoW. Subsequently died of Pneumonia at Alexandria 07/11/1918, where he had been moved as part of the repatriation process.

 

Total

1 OR Killed in Action, 3 OR Died of Wounds

2 OR Missing subsequently ruled to have died.

10 OR Missing subsequently Turkish PoW, (2 died in captivity, a third during the repatriation process).

1 OR wounded.

Total of 17 OR’s accounted for.

(Petre says One officer and twenty-seven other ranks missing, and six other ranks wounded.)

 

Hope that helps, (and isn't too incoherent!),

 

Peter

 

 

[rob carman]

Nice job Peter.

 

Rob.

[Guest]

Eran,

 

Mate, the 12 LHR war dairy gives some details on what they were up to on the 29 Nov for the wounding of Purves.

 

 29 Nov 1917

 

0900 - Patrols located cisterns at Khurbetha, and Beit Likia. Sent pack horses to Khurbetha to water there. While there they were heavily shelled, casualties, 3 pack horses, 1 pack mule and 2 ride horses killed, 2 OR's wounded

 

Now the two men had me looking, while Purves is confirmed the other one was not

 

The Regt shows a number of losses the next day, while the war diary does not confirm there losses.

 

So the other men maybe mixed with next days losses?

 

GLAZEBROOK    William    572    Pte    12 LHR    C Sqn att DSqn/6 LHR 8-15 evac to (Brit Red Cross) hosp Highfield Hall UK (dysentry) 10-15 (G) to AD Abbey Wood UK 1-16 rtn C Sqn 3-16 (B) WIA 30-11-17 wrist & jaw shot reported shelled during relief of 156 Bde from Beit Sira to El Burj RTA wounded disch 19-9-18 brothers Robert 20Bn KIA and Henry 13Bn KIA related Robert 6 LHR

 

KELLY    George Whiting    595    Sgt/band    12 LHR    C Sqn att Pte DSqn/6 LHR 8-15 (G) rtn 2-16 T/att batman to Capt Brown 2 LH Bde HQ 6-16 rtn C Sqn 8-16 (B) WIA 30-11-17 head shrapnel reported shelled during relief of 156 Bde from Beit Sira to El Burj died at 35 CCS buried at Deir Sineid by chaplain Webster reburied Gaza War Cemetery Palestine

 

ADELT    Rudolph Askwith    1633    Pte    12 LHR    6R tos Sig C Sqn 3-16 to RHQ 6-16 to C Sqn 7-16 WIA 19-4-17 eyes & concussion shot reported in attack on Atawineh redoubt at 2nd Gaza rtn 7-17 (B) WIA 30-11-17 R/thigh shrapnel reported shelled during relief of 156 Bde from Beit Sira to El Burj to 4 LHTR 4-18 to T/Cpl Orderly Room clerk 8-18 to T/Sgt Orderly Room clerk 1-19 rtn 3-19 to 4 LH Bde HQ 3-19 to UK leave 5-19 later WWII AKA Randolph Askwith Adelt brothers Burton 1 FCE and Carl 1 LHR KIA
 

MUGGLETON    Arthur Burton    2022    A/Cpl    ICC    7R to 4 LHTR 3-17 tos CSqn/12 LHR (2022a) 5-17 (B) WIA 30-11-17 L/side sharpnel reported wounded either taking over line near El Burj from Royal Scots 156 Bde or in Turkish attack during night on 3 LH Bde died at Anzac MD Receiving Station Buried at Ramleh War Cemetery Palestine six cousins died in AIF
 

SMITH    Austin    379    Pte    12 LHR    B Sqn att DSqn/7 LHR 8-15 WIA 1-9-15 minor accident report 5 wounded at Lone Pine WIA 2-12-15 feet frost bite at Ryries Post evac to hosp 12-15 (G) rtn 2-16 to L/Cpl 7-16 WIA 19-4-17 back & R/arm shot reported in attack on Atawineh redoubt at 2nd Gaza rtn 7-17 to Cpl 4 Troop? 10-17 (B) WIA 30-11-17 septic hand reason not stated possibly in Turkish attack during night on 3 LH Bde rtn 2-18 to L/Sgt (from Jennings) 4-18 to T/Sgt 3 Troop? (from peard) 6-18 to Sgt (from Powell) 8-18 to hosp (pyrexia) 10-18 to UK leave 5-19
 

Yes I know while these men appear to be all C Sqn, other then Smith (B Sqn) and as Purves was also B Sqn then possibly Smith was the other man wounded at the watering at Khurbetha? But as his wounding is not confirmed on that date, he could have been carrying his septic hand for more then one day?

 

So it adds to the story

 

Cheers

S.B

[Eran Tearosh]

On 20/05/2021 at 16:40, PRC said:

 

It would seem likely that as he has no known grave, Private 240121 Sidney Craske of the 1/5th Norfolks was originally among the 27 other ranks of the Battalion recorded as missing so that was my starting point.

 

I could not however find anything for him or Private 200916 Ernest Edward Hague on the International Committee of the Red Cross site.

 

Expanding the search for the other names, the official Daily Casualty List for December 19th 1917, (page 15 of the Weekly Casualty List dated 24th December 1917) has Bullen 241018 J.H. (Roughton) and Woodward 241015 A.J. (Downham Market) recorded as Died of Wounds, while Listed as Wounded are Andrews 200361 C (Thurston); Blyth 240228 A. (Kings Lynn), Chapman 200144 Sjt. F.R. (Stowmarket), Drury 25774 G.J. (Brisley), Riches 201078 J.W. (Swaffham)  and White 27486 R.J. (Newmarket).

 

Under “Missing Believed Killed” there is Hague 200916 E.E. (Norwich), but there are no other ranks of the Norfolk Regiment listed as “Missing”.

 

I also took a look for Norfolk Regiment other ranks in the 1918 Casualty Lists under the heading reported a Prisoner of War in Turkish Hands and for the few I coud find that were not historic,  (“Previously believed a Prisoner of War now confirmed”), there were no records at the ICRC.

 

Checking local Norfolk papers, I believed Sidney Craske, (shown as 240121 F. Craske,  Lynn), was on a list of missing Norfolk Regiment men that appeared in the Lynn Advertiser, (edition dated 22nd February 1918). Other Norfolk Regiment men recorded as missing are:-

 

240217 L. Bell (Northwold)

240399 C.B. Goate (Lynn)

240290 E.H. Hovell (Downham)

241116 W. Jex (Lynn)

240401 C.Q.M.S. F.M. Johnson (Lynn)

240471 F.C. Meggitt (Lynn)

240567 C.B. Patrick (Lynn)

240860 E. Roper (Lynn)

241022 A. Seaman (Wisbech)

241019 A. Stalham (Hunstanton).

 

On the same page is this news story.

 

 

Image courtesy FindMyPast. Corporal William Blott has exisiting discharge records and paperwork at the ICRC that shows he was captured 12/08/1915 - so probably Anafarta.

 

The edition of the Lynn Advertiser for the 15th March 1918 provides a partial update on the missing men.

 

Previously reported missing, now reported prisoners of war in Turkish hands.

240290 E.H. Hovell (Downham).

241116 W. Jex (Lynn)

240471 F.C. Meggitt (Lynn)

241049 A. Stalham (Hunstanton).

 

The Lynn Advertiser covers mainly the north-west of Norfolk and across the border to Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire. The traditional area of the 1/5th Battalion was the north and west of Norfolk. The place listed for next of kin in the original missing report in the Lynn Advertiser of the 22nd February 1918 all fell within that catchment area. However by this stage of the war that is itself suspicious, and therefore this may only be a partial list. I’ve checked my notes for two Norwich based papers, the Eastern Daily Press and the Norwich Mercury for the same period in February 1918 and I don’t have a record of a comparable list, but that may simply be an error in my record keeping. The micro-filmed copies of the Eastern Daily Press for this period held at the County Archive were particularly low quality and difficult to read.

 

So my first draft of a potential casualty list for the two Battalions with sources and supporting documents is attached. I’m sure there are likely to be more names to be considered – finding the official Daily Casualty List that includes the same names as the men reported missing in the Lynn Advertiser would probably be a good place to start

 

Summarising it:-

 

1/4th Battalion

200916 Private Ernest Edward Hague, Killed in Action 27/11/1917.

200361 Private Cambridge Andrews, B Company, Wounded - GSW

200144 Serjeant Francis Robert Chapman, Wounded – subsequently discharged as a result of wounds.

25744 Private George James Drury, B Company, Wounded – GSW

201078 Private John William Riches, Wounded.

27486 Private Robert James White, B Company, Wounded – GSW Right ankle and foot.

 

Total 1 OR Killed in Action, 5 OR Wounded.

(Petre says 2 OR wounded)

 

1/5th Battalion

33096 Private Herbert William Redding, Killed in Action 28/11/1917.

240121 Private Sidney Craske. Died on or since 28/11/1917, (initially reported missing).

241137 Private John Bowen. Died 27/11/1917 cause tbc.

241018 Private John Henry Bullen. Died of Wounds 27/11/1917.

241015 Private Albert James Woodward. Died of Wounds 27/11/1917 (Originally buried Ramleh Convent Garden Cemetery).

241065 Private Sidney Valentine Dowe, Died of Wounds 28/11/1917 at 32 Field Ambulance.

240228 Private Arthur J Blyth, Wounded. (Survived the war).

240217 Private Lionel Bell, Missing subsequently Turkish PoW, captured 28/11/1917

240399 Private Charles Bartle Goate, Missing subsequently Turkish PoW.

240290 Private Ernest Henry Hovell, Missing subsequently Turkish PoW.

241116 Private John William Jex, Missing subsequently Turkish PoW.

240401 Company Quarter Master Serjeant Frank Mallett Johnson, Missing subsequently Turkish PoW, captured 28/11/1917.

240471 Private Frederick Charles Meggitt, Missing subsequently Turkish PoW. Died Nigde, Asia Minor 04/06/1918.

240567 Private Charles Bridges Patrick, B Company. Died Haifa 14/12/1917 so likely to have been Missing subsequently Turkish PoW.

240860 Private Ernest Roper, Missing subsequently Turkish PoW.

241022 Private Albert Seaman, Missing subsequently Turkish PoW.

241049 Serjeant Arthur Stalham.  Missing subsequently Turkish PoW. Subsequently died of Pneumonia at Alexandria 07/11/1918, where he had been moved as part of the repatriation process.

 

Total

1 OR Killed in Action, 3 OR Died of Wounds

2 OR Missing subsequently ruled to have died.

10 OR Missing subsequently Turkish PoW, (2 died in captivity, a third during the repatriation process).

1 OR wounded.

Total of 17 OR’s accounted for.

(Petre says One officer and twenty-seven other ranks missing, and six other ranks wounded.)

 

Hope that helps, (and isn't too incoherent!),

 

Peter

 

Norfolk Battalion Casualties Shilta November 27th to 29th 1917 v1.0.pdf 1.28 MB · 5 downloads

 

Peter - What a great work!!!

 

Sorry it took some time to reply. I've been working on a different topic (I'll write about that in a new thread) that took much more time than I anticipated. As to Shilta - Still a few loose ends, but your post & document sure helps a lot! Many many thanks!!

 

Eran

[Eran Tearosh]

On 21/05/2021 at 00:13, stevebecker said:

Eran,

 

Mate, the 12 LHR war dairy gives some details on what they were up to on the 29 Nov for the wounding of Purves.

 

 29 Nov 1917

 

0900 - Patrols located cisterns at Khurbetha, and Beit Likia. Sent pack horses to Khurbetha to water there. While there they were heavily shelled, casualties, 3 pack horses, 1 pack mule and 2 ride horses killed, 2 OR's wounded

 

Now the two men had me looking, while Purves is confirmed the other one was not

 

The Regt shows a number of losses the next day, while the war diary does not confirm there losses.

 

So the other men maybe mixed with next days losses?

 

GLAZEBROOK    William    572    Pte    12 LHR    C Sqn att DSqn/6 LHR 8-15 evac to (Brit Red Cross) hosp Highfield Hall UK (dysentry) 10-15 (G) to AD Abbey Wood UK 1-16 rtn C Sqn 3-16 (B) WIA 30-11-17 wrist & jaw shot reported shelled during relief of 156 Bde from Beit Sira to El Burj RTA wounded disch 19-9-18 brothers Robert 20Bn KIA and Henry 13Bn KIA related Robert 6 LHR

 

KELLY    George Whiting    595    Sgt/band    12 LHR    C Sqn att Pte DSqn/6 LHR 8-15 (G) rtn 2-16 T/att batman to Capt Brown 2 LH Bde HQ 6-16 rtn C Sqn 8-16 (B) WIA 30-11-17 head shrapnel reported shelled during relief of 156 Bde from Beit Sira to El Burj died at 35 CCS buried at Deir Sineid by chaplain Webster reburied Gaza War Cemetery Palestine

 

ADELT    Rudolph Askwith    1633    Pte    12 LHR    6R tos Sig C Sqn 3-16 to RHQ 6-16 to C Sqn 7-16 WIA 19-4-17 eyes & concussion shot reported in attack on Atawineh redoubt at 2nd Gaza rtn 7-17 (B) WIA 30-11-17 R/thigh shrapnel reported shelled during relief of 156 Bde from Beit Sira to El Burj to 4 LHTR 4-18 to T/Cpl Orderly Room clerk 8-18 to T/Sgt Orderly Room clerk 1-19 rtn 3-19 to 4 LH Bde HQ 3-19 to UK leave 5-19 later WWII AKA Randolph Askwith Adelt brothers Burton 1 FCE and Carl 1 LHR KIA
 

MUGGLETON    Arthur Burton    2022    A/Cpl    ICC    7R to 4 LHTR 3-17 tos CSqn/12 LHR (2022a) 5-17 (B) WIA 30-11-17 L/side sharpnel reported wounded either taking over line near El Burj from Royal Scots 156 Bde or in Turkish attack during night on 3 LH Bde died at Anzac MD Receiving Station Buried at Ramleh War Cemetery Palestine six cousins died in AIF
 

SMITH    Austin    379    Pte    12 LHR    B Sqn att DSqn/7 LHR 8-15 WIA 1-9-15 minor accident report 5 wounded at Lone Pine WIA 2-12-15 feet frost bite at Ryries Post evac to hosp 12-15 (G) rtn 2-16 to L/Cpl 7-16 WIA 19-4-17 back & R/arm shot reported in attack on Atawineh redoubt at 2nd Gaza rtn 7-17 to Cpl 4 Troop? 10-17 (B) WIA 30-11-17 septic hand reason not stated possibly in Turkish attack during night on 3 LH Bde rtn 2-18 to L/Sgt (from Jennings) 4-18 to T/Sgt 3 Troop? (from peard) 6-18 to Sgt (from Powell) 8-18 to hosp (pyrexia) 10-18 to UK leave 5-19
 

Yes I know while these men appear to be all C Sqn, other then Smith (B Sqn) and as Purves was also B Sqn then possibly Smith was the other man wounded at the watering at Khurbetha? But as his wounding is not confirmed on that date, he could have been carrying his septic hand for more then one day?

 

So it adds to the story

 

Cheers

S.B

 

Steve,

 

As usual - what a treasure of information! Thanks!!

 

Without a doubt, the operations along The Passage of Horon are the most complicated and confusing of the entire Palestine Campaign. Over the years, I managed to 'make sense' of most of them, and to locate the right locations on the ground. A very challenging task....

 

Eran 

 

 

 

 

  

[PRC]

@Eran Tearosh

 

Small update. I previously posted that I had found a list of the missing in a local Norfolk newspaper, the Lynn Advertiser, dated the 22nd February 1918. Some of those missing later turned out to have died, and most of the rest were confirmed as Turkish Prisoners of War, with documentary proof in a couple of cases that they were captured at Shilta. They were all 5th Battalion men. The working assumption was that they were all casualties of that same action.

 

The list were all men drawn from the catchment area of the 5th Battalion, and I speculated at the time that at this late stage of the conflict that seems slightly strange. I thought if I could find the original list in the official casualty list it might add mores names of missing men from elsewhere in the UK. I found it and it did - a whole one

 

The same daily list did however had another four wounded, and two men classed as wounded and missing - all 5th Battalion. The assumption here is that these are also casualties of the action of the 27th/28th November 1917.

 

They come from the Daily List dated 14th February 1918 which was included in the War Office weekly list dated 19th February 1918.

 

(Additional) Missing man.

30999 Private Henry Coote. Subsequently confirmed Turkish PoW.

 

Wounded and Missing.

240238 Private Claude Sampson. Died PoW 23rd June 1918 No known grave - on the Jerusalem Memorial.

240212 Drummer Fred F. Wade. Subsequently confirmed Turkish PoW.

 

Wounded.

240532 Private Cecil C. Child. (Survived the War)

241071 Private Alfred George Childs. (Survived the War)

240965 Private Arthur Crown. Died of Malaria in the Lebanon, 18th November 1918.

240561 Private Sydney Kerrison. (Survived the War).

 

I also went through the whole weeks Casualty List looking at officers that were reported missing, in case it was the 5th Battalion man. There were four officers of the Norfolk Battalion reported on various daily lists as either Missing or Missing and Wounded. One was a Lieutenant Colonel whose fate I already knew about - killed when the Battalion HQ was overrun in the German Counterattack at Cambrai on the 30th November 1917. A Lieutenant and a 2nd Lieutenant were casualties in the same event. The fourth officer was a Captain in the 5th Battalion, William Claude Gardiner, but a private enquiry that was made at the time to the International Committee of the Red Cross stated that he had been missing since the 2nd November 1917 at Gaza. So for now the 5th Battalion Officer missing at Shilta remains unknown.

 

Updated Total

1 OR Killed in Action,

3 OR Died of Wounds

2 OR Missing subsequently ruled to have died.

13 OR Missing subsequently Turkish PoW, (3 died in captivity, a fourth during the repatriation process).

5 OR wounded.

Total of 24 OR’s accounted for.

 

(Petre says One officer and twenty-seven other ranks missing, and six other ranks wounded.)

Updated Casualty List attached.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

Norfolk Battalion Casualties Shilta November 27th to 29th 1917 v2.0.pdf

[Eran Tearosh]

Peter,

 

That's quite an incredible work! Thanks again!!!

 

Do you think someone on the Norfolk side would be interested in a co-operation regarding signposting the place? 

There's a nice little walkway on the south slope of this hill, overlooking a nice part of this action.

I'm well connected here, including with the right person to get the proper permeation for something like that.  

 

Eran

[PRC]

Eran,

 

11 hours ago, Eran Tearosh said:

Do you think someone on the Norfolk side would be interested in a co-operation regarding signposting the place? 

 

You could try the Regimental Museum and they may be able to put you in contact with the right people.

http://www.royalnorfolkregimentalmuseum.org.uk/

 

Having said which money is generally very tight in the public sector and unfortunately, as you're probably well aware, as far as the great British public is concerned nothing happened outside France & Flanders. The Museum and the local County Archive did an exhibition on the Norfolk Regiment at 2nd Gaza in the Centenary year and the impression I got was that it was a bit of a flop.

Cheers, Peter