John Burden Did he serve WW!?

[Skipman]

John Burden was born at Oakview, Aberfeldy, 24/2/1889. Father James Burden a stonemason, mother Jessie Burden née Cameron. In 1911 he was a police officer in Manchester living at 39 Chelworth Street, Rusholme, Manchester. In 1939 he was a Police Sergeant living at 3 Fitton Avenue, Manchester with wife Mary E Burden.

 

Did he serve in WW1?

 

Mike

[Matlock1418]

WFA/Fold3 pension record cards have a dependant mother's claim card for Mrs Jessie Burden, Oakview, Aberfeldy

= Duncan Alexander BURDEN , 50427, Pte. 4th King's Liverpool, Missing 17-4-18

And on CWGC.

His younger brother I presume.

Did wonder if he had likewise joined the KLR = ???

But sorry, no further with your main quest.

:-) M

[corisande]

He does not seem to have been in the Army, in as much as there is nothing in his police retirement to say that he had a break in service. Nor are there any military recors to link to him. He would seem to have contnued as a policeman in WW1

 

His marriage cert in Oct 1915 would give his profession then, but the most likely thing it will say is "policeman", which would not prove that he did not enlist after that date

 

Various Ancestry trees have photos of him in Police uniform. You could try contacting some of the tree owners, as they appear to know about him

 

[Skipman]

Excellent corisande thank you very much.

 

"there is nothing in his police retirement to say that he had a break in service." How do you know this?

 

Thanks Matlock1418 Yes, younger brother KIA originally Manchesters then KLR.

 

Mike

[corisande]

If you look at this Ancestry Tree Gallery - click - it has lots of photos and paperwork on his police work.

[Skipman]

5 minutes ago, corisande said:

If you look at this Ancestry Tree Gallery - click - it has lots of photos and paperwork on his police work.

 

I know these fine people and have met them a number of times. I hadn't thought to look here. They have very kindly given me a photo of Duncan but had not yet quizzed them on John. Haven't seen them since lockdown and perhaps this has been a project. I will get in touch with them.

 

Thanks again. I should perhaps study ancestry further for more recent information.

 

Mike

[corisande]

The Gallery sections of tree are often empty of all except census forms, it is unusual to get one full of as much as that one.

 

I often never bother to click the Gallery tab, but that tree seemed to be hiding something!

[Toontraveller]

It may also be worth trying the Greater Manchester Police Museum to see if they have any records of his service.

 

Looking at the family tree on Ancestry it would suggest he did not serve in WW1 .

 

A lot of Manchester Police Officers did serve and lost their lives. 
 

 Looking at the information on the family tree ( if correct) He was born in 1889 which does not prohibit him from serving based on age. it has a significant amount of information and photographs in Police Uniform and I would suspect the owner of the tree would know if he served or not.
 

There are a a few photographs of him in uniform , none of which he is wearing any Medals or ribbons. He is with colleagues in one photograph with two colleagues wearing WW1 medals on their uniform , he is also in uniform with them but is not wearing any medals .. If he had served in WW1 I suspect he would be wearing his medals in this photograph . 
 

[Skipman]

Thanks Toontraveller. I'm actually getting in touch with the family later and will ask them about John, i have met them several times, but since then (and lockdown) I have broadened my research to the brothers of the men I was originally researching.

 

I have managed to contact a few of the families and made some wonderful friends in the process. They are always extremely interested and grateful that these men are still remembered locally.

 

Mike

[Toontraveller]

Mike, glad you are in contact with the family , I’m sure they will have the information based on the amount of photographs and information they have posted on the family tree.

 

Good luck with your research .

 

[Skipman]

Many thanks Toontraveller. I weill post here when I have any news. Thanks you all as ever.

 

Mike

[Provost]

Looking at his helmet plate, I would venture that he was a member of the Salford Borough Police rather than Manchester City Police. GMP Museum's collection should also cover Salford. Rusholme is about a mile from Salford, so that would also tie in. The memorial to the 20 men who fell is in Swinton Police Station, but (so far), no Rolle of Honour of men who served and returned has been identified.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

 

Richard

[Skipman]

Thank you all. Have had it confirmed that John joined the Greenock Police Force in 1909 and just over a year later joined the Manchester City Police so didn’t serve in the war. Another brother James did serve, as 1956/200441 of the 1/5th HLI.

 

Provost I will ask if he served with Salford Borough police, you might be correct.

 

Mike

[Provost]

On 11/05/2021 at 00:12, Skipman said:

Thank you all. Have had it confirmed that John joined the Greenock Police Force in 1909 and just over a year later joined the Manchester City Police so didn’t serve in the war. Another brother James did serve, as 1956/200441 of the 1/5th HLI.

 

Provost I will ask if he served with Salford Borough police, you might be correct.

 

Mike

Mike,

 

I've had the chance to check one of our photos, and although Albert Longworth's photo dates from after 1931 (he received the bar to the Manchester City Police Bravery Medal that year), it is clearly the same helmet plate as John Burden's. Albert served in the Military Mounted Police during the War.

 

He is not in the Manchester Corporation Roll of Honour, published after the War which lists those who served by Corporation Department, so your suspicion that he didn't enlist are pretty much confirmed.

 

Cheers,

 

Richard