Scripture Reader - Mr. P. Goss

[Matlock1418]

Not seen a MIC like this before.

Wondered if the forum could perhaps please add further:

= the organisation he was from & his role [though I probably get the general gist of his role], and

= his possible entitlement to a medal(s)

Image courtesy of Ancestry - with thanks

???

:-) M

[Kath]

In 1911 he is a Baker & Confectioner, same address.

 

https://rmhistorical.com/files/content/Airman Scripture Reader.pdf

 

Edited 8 May , 2021 by Kath

[PRC]

Can’t help with your specific questions but just in case it assists:-

 

On the 1911 Census of England & Wales the 46 year old Baker & Confectioner Philip Goss, born Plymouth, was recorded as the married head of the household at 69 Victory Street,  Keyham, Devonport.

 

(Initial and address would appear to tie in with the MiC).

 

He lives there with his wife of 20 years, the 43 year old Bessie Goss, born Branstaple, Devon. The couple state they have had three children, but sadly only one was still alive. This was their 17 year old daughter Violet Goss, born Barnstaple and shown as assisting in the business.

 

A 1910 Devonport Rate Assessment shows that Philip Goss is liable for a House & Shop at 67 Victory Street East and a House at 69 Victory Street East. These are all properties for which he pays rent.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6CK4-CLW2

 

On the 1901 Census of England & Wales the 38 year old Philip Goss, a Baker born Plymouth and his wife Bessie, aged 34 and born Barnstaple, were recorded living at 45 Johnston Terrace,  Devonport. Going back to the 1891 Census of England & Wales the 28 year old Philip was again shown as a married Baker. On the two censuses prior to that he turns up as Philip A.

 

So nothing in the Census Record to indicate he might be a Lay Preacher or Non-conformist Minister.

 

The death of a 62 year old Philip A, Goss was registered in the Devonport District in Q3 1928. No obvious Civil Probate or obituary in Newspapers available on the British Newspaper Archive website (via FindMyPast)..

 

Going back several steps, the marriage of a Philip Adolphus Goss to a Bessie Whitefield was recorded in the Barnstaple District in Q3 1890.

 

However struggling to track down an online marriage certificate .

 

Given the location you can’t rule out that he worked in one of the Seamans Missions or one of the off-duty places set up to keep Royal Navy man on the straight and narrow.

 

Hope some of that helps,

Peter

[Terry_Reeves]

There is a medal roll for the Army Scripture Readers Society, but he is not on it. As already mentioned, he may have had some connection with the Navy, equally he may not have any entitlement at all per the mic.
 

TR

Edited 8 May , 2021 by Terry_Reeves

[michaeldr]

Interesting that they are still involved today - see https://www.sasra.org.uk/

[corisande]

There is quite a good article on this link - click - which is "THE DIARY OF AN ARMY SCRIPTURE READER WITH THE BRITISH EXPEDITIONARY FORCE IN FRANCE" and goes into some detail as to what he was doing in France

 

The introduction gives a snapshot, then more follows from Jul 1916

 

William Ransley left the Army in April 1889. After leaving he joined the Army Scripture Readers’ Society and shortly after that he was appointed as Army Scripture Reader. He began his work in Aldershot, where he had first begun soldiering in the early 1880s. After 10 years in Aldershot, he moved to Canterbury for a few months before heading off to the Boer War. When he returned, he was posted to Dover then Shortcliffe and Winchester. He often, in all his postings, visited the injured in Garrison Hospitals and carried out a lot of his work there. Shortly after the outbreak of World War I the Army Scripture Readers’ Society obtained permission from the War Office to send Readers to the Front to do spiritual work among the troops. No readers were allowed to be attached to Units at the Front, so ASR Ransley was sent to the base in Boulogne in 1914.

ASR Ransley worked tirelessly among the various hospitals in Wimereux throughout the war. In December 1915 he was attached to Number 14 General Hospital and upon returning from England, where he spent Christmas with his family, he was posted to Number 5 Convalescent Camp and Number 8 Stationary Hospital. This is where he would see the slaughter of the Somme through the eyes and stories of the endless stream of injured soldiers from both sides.

[Matlock1418]

Apologies to all for a shotgun reply of thanks for your great contributions here - all much appreciated.

An interesting scenario now much further illuminated for me [and of interest to others I hope]

Had never heard of a Navy or a Army Scripture Readers' Society but could have/had imagined such activities [but perhaps in a less structured/formal sort of organisation].

Many ways to serve and so it seems this is another one.

Wonder if he ever did get any medals?

[it seems someone else thought he was entitled and that he perhaps wanted them - Can anyone make out that applicant's name and associate it with a Scripture Readers' Society?]

Image courtesy of Ancestry - With thanks

???

:-) M

On 09/05/2021 at 00:07, Terry_Reeves said:

There is a medal roll for the Army Scripture Readers Society,

Interesting - Wonder if you could please help me out with a source [link?]/how to access.

:-) M

[Terry_Reeves]

8 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Apologies to all for a shotgun reply of thanks for your great contributions here - all much appreciated.

An interesting scenario now much further illuminated for me [and of interest to others I hope]

Had never heard of a Navy or a Army Scripture Readers' Society but could have/had imagined such activities [but perhaps in a less structured/formal sort of organisation].

Many ways to serve and so it seems this is another one.

Wonder if he ever did get any medals?

[it seems someone else thought he was entitled and that he perhaps wanted them - Can anyone make out that applicant's name and associate it with a Scripture Readers' Society?]

Image courtesy of Ancestry - With thanks

???

:-) M

Interesting - Wonder if you could please help me out with a source [link?]/how to access.

:-) M

On Ancestry medal index card just put in the regiment box Army Scripture Readers Society. Leave the rest blank.

 

TR

[Matlock1418]

2 minutes ago, Terry_Reeves said:

On Ancestry medal index card just put in the regiment box Army Scripture Readers Society. Leave the rest blank.

Thank you.

:-) M

[Terry_Reeves]

Just now, Matlock1418 said:

Thank you.

:-) M

Sorry, should have said service and medal rolls.

 

TR

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, Terry_Reeves said:

Sorry, should have said service and medal rolls.

Ah, yes - Missed your slip but very glad you corrected it otherwise I would have been extremely lost!

;-) M

[Matlock1418]

6 hours ago, Terry_Reeves said:

There is a medal roll for the Army Scripture Readers Society

Terry,

Think I have followed your instructions correctly.

I get a list of 2310 MIC for "Army Scripture Readers"

[Including Scottish Churches Huts and Civilian Motor Drivers (RAC Owner Drivers) and plenty of other civilians and US & dominion hospital staff etc.]

A very significant majority however seem to have a military rank and number and on checking a sample they appear on rolls for military units [the RFC scoring highly in my small sample]

And a very small minority are Army Scripture readers

Is this the curse of Ancestry transcriptions? - If so, a real pain!

Or ... ???

Short of trawling or knowing a surname do you know if there is any other way to select true ASR?

:-) M

[Matlock1418]

A bit of trawling turned up a 1921 BWM Medal Roll [Civ/105A] with 36 ARS - mainly France and some for Mesopotamia and Malta

[many of whom had applied in 1919 for a 1914-15 Star see their MICs - and many were recorded as "Ineligible" though they had landed in France in 1914 & 1915].

Rather looks like several just got a BWM off the Civilian Roll [Civ/105A page 2, or thereabouts - An example being Mr. C. Coupland].  Others on the Roll were annotated "Left. Present address unknown"

Though still not found Mr. P. Goss.

:-) M

Edited 8 May , 2021 by Matlock1418
clarify

[AndrewThornton]

Three members of the Army Scripture Readers were issued with the 1914 Star, two of them at first having their application rejected as 'ineligible.' Amongst them was Harry Arthur Wisbey, whose 'Rough Journal' is available to purchase on the SASRA website. This is a short biography that might be of interest: https://m.facebook.com/story/graphql_permalink/?graphql_id=UzpfSTg0ODg0MTg2NTE1MDg3MToxNTg2NzM2ODQ4MDI4MDMy

[Matlock1418]

13 minutes ago, AndrewThornton said:

Three members of the Army Scripture Readers were issued with the 1914 Star, two of them at first having their application rejected as 'ineligible.' Amongst them was Harry Arthur Wisbey

That is very interesting [thanks for the link but I don't use FB] - I have however checked that Roll again - Mr. H Wisbey was issued with a VM on it [in 1922].

As did only one other - Mr B. Wood, MBE, Superintending Scripture Reader [in 1922]

Both appear to have served in France.

:-) M

Edited 8 May , 2021 by Matlock1418
added served in France

[AndrewThornton]

On 09/05/2021 at 07:34, Matlock1418 said:

That is very interesting [thanks for the link but I don't use FB] - I have however checked that Roll again - Mr. H Wisbey was issued with a VM on it [in 1922].

As did only one other - Mr B. Wood, MBE, Superintending Scripture Reader [in 1922]

Both appear to have served in France.

:-) M

Here are screenshots for you.

 

 

 

[Matlock1418]

2 minutes ago, AndrewThornton said:

Here are screenshots for you.

Thank you - a determined effort by a man on a mission I would say.

:-) M

[Matlock1418]

7 hours ago, corisande said:

There is quite a good article on this link - click - which is "THE DIARY OF AN ARMY SCRIPTURE READER WITH THE BRITISH EXPEDITIONARY FORCE IN FRANCE" and goes into some detail as to what he was doing in France

The introduction gives a snapshot, then more follows from Jul 1916

William Ransley left the Army in April 1889. After leaving he joined the Army Scripture Readers’ Society and shortly after that he was appointed as Army Scripture Reader. ... ...

Mr W. G. Ransley is also recorded on 1921 BWM Medal Roll [Civ/105A] - for the award of a BWM [no other annotation on the Roll suggests a VM was issued to him]

His MIC is also one of those annotated "Ineligible" for a 1914-15 Star, though landing in France 15.12.14.

:-) M

 

Edited 8 May , 2021 by Matlock1418
added MIC detail

[Matlock1418]

On 09/05/2021 at 07:21, AndrewThornton said:

Three members of the Army Scripture Readers were issued with the 1914 Star, two of them at first having their application rejected as 'ineligible.'

Is this chap another one of them?

Richard OLIVER, Scripture Reader

Already on the BWM Medal Roll [Civ/105A]

In addition to a BWM hIs MIC offers an insight into how at least one Scripture Reader appears to have got their medals [presumably a further Star & VM] - granted through the intervention of Sir Gerald Hobler, KC, MP

Image courtesy of Ancestry - With thanks

:-) M

 

 

[AndrewThornton]

That card is annotated for the 1914/15 Star. The cut-off for qualification for the 1914 Star was midnight 22/23 November 1914. Richard Oliver disembarked on 25 November 1914.

[AndrewThornton]

The names on the 1914 Star Roll are: Superintendent Ben Wood, Harry Wisbey (attached 2nd Suffolks) and Ben Johnson, who was attached to an unknown Battalion of the Coldstream Guards. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 8 May , 2021 by AndrewThornton

[Keith_history_buff]

17 hours ago, PRC said:

Given the location you can’t rule out that he worked in one of the Seamans Missions or one of the off-duty places set up to keep Royal Navy man on the straight and narrow.

Under Admiralty rules, a civilian Canteen Assistant could be eligible for the British War medal. If they had served afloat, they were eligible. They had no eligibility if they had served on land in the UK. Any steward ratings doing the same activity would have been eligible, afloat or otherwise, as they would have done the minimum 28 days mobilised service.

There may have been some confusion as to this man's eligibility. There are certainly some interesting stories behind some of the MICs which unconventionally document medal requests, versus the more common MICs that can be cross-referenced to War Office medal rolls.  

[Matlock1418]

8 hours ago, AndrewThornton said:

That card is annotated for the 1914/15 Star. The cut-off for qualification for the 1914 Star was midnight 22/23 November 1914. Richard Oliver disembarked on 25 November 1914.

Mea culpa.

Was late and eyes and brain obviously not working!

:-( M

[Matlock1418]

8 hours ago, AndrewThornton said:

The names on the 1914 Star Roll are: Superintendent Ben Wood, Harry Wisbey (attached 2nd Suffolks) and Ben Johnson, who was attached to an unknown Battalion of the Coldstream Guards. 

Thanks for the update/correction for the third recipient

:-) M

[Matlock1418]

21 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

There may have been some confusion as to this man's eligibility. There are certainly some interesting stories behind some of the MICs which unconventionally document medal requests, versus the more common MICs that can be cross-referenced to War Office medal rolls.  

There's the rub - I wonder what Mr Goss's was.

@PRC and you have raised the matter of a home service shore-based role so Devonport does seem a possibility.

However the so far unidentified applicant for Mr Goss seems to have thought he stood a chance.

???

:-) M