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Sjt T.E.Allen (MM) KLR casualty


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davidbohl

Sjt Thomas Edward Allen #28125 King's Liverpool CWGC

From the BNA

AllenTE_ExtraMilitaryInfo_1918Jun13.png.0269fd9e06c604721a0ccda6c66fa1e1.png

 

I'm trying to put together a paragraph on Sjt Allen, so any details about his MM in 1917 and his death in the Spring Offensive will be most welcome.

 

I can see conflicting results on websites as to his parentage, Robert and Sarah Jane(Radcliffe) or Eli and Ellen on 1911 Census

Effects and pension went to widow Mary Ann and child Wilfred (they were married in 1913)

 

Many thanks

Dave

 

 

 

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Bardess

Do you have a year of birth?

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davidbohl
Posted (edited)

 

5 minutes ago, Bardess said:

Do you have a year of birth?

 

There's a birth record for 1883 Radcliffe, Lancs 

Edited by davidbohl
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Bardess
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: 
ALLEN, THOMAS  EDWARD   JONES  
GRO Reference: 1883  J Quarter in BURY, LANCASHIRE  Volume 08C  Page 615
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Bardess

Robert Allen and Sarah Jane Jones were married in Q3 1881 in Bury

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Bardess

This site is excellent for finding out mothers maiden name before Sept 1911

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davidbohl

Thanks Diane, I had them shortlisted on the 1901 census

From Anc

777252361_Screenshot2021-05-0814_26_04.png.6ee3a333adcda33e297a2d37fd1e11d6.png

 

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TullochArd
1 hour ago, davidbohl said:

 

 

There's a birth record for 1883 Radcliffe, Lancs 

 

.... and Graham Maddox in "Liverpool Pals" has him as "Radcliffe, Lancs"    Promenade's post is interesting as it records him amongst soldiers departing for the BEF on 6th July 1916.  His MIC records he had been in France previously from December 1914 which highlights significant prior service in the Manchester Regiment.  By the first week of May 1918 the 89th Brigade (of which 18 KLR had been a part) had been reduced to what was known as the 17th (Composite) Battalion of around 700 men.  On the 8th May 1918 this Battalion was subjected to an intense artillery barrage followed, at 07:30, by an infantry attack which ran over their lines to a depth of some 400-500 yards in places. It is further recorded that two companies made a successful counter attack.

 

Edited by TullochArd
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davidbohl

Found him on the 1911 census

From FamilySearch

 

Name Thomas Edward Allen
Sex Male
Age 27
Event Date 1911
Event Place Radcliffe, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original) Radcliffe, Radcliffe, Lancashire, England
Sub-District Radcliffe
Sub-District Number 6
Enumeration District 6
Registration District Bury
District Number 462
Birth Year (Estimated) 1884
Birthplace Radcliffe, Lancashire
Marital Status Married
Occupation BLOWER
Number in Family 5
Industry COLLIERY
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Document Type 3
Page Number 1
Source Page Type 6
Piece/Folio 555
Registration Number RG14
Schedule Type 278
Thomas Edward Allen's Parents and Siblings

 

OPEN ALL
Father
M
58
Radcliffe, Lancashire
Name Mr Robert Allen
Sex Male
Age 58
Event Date 1911
Event Place Radcliffe, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original) Radcliffe, Radcliffe, Lancashire, England
Sub-District Radcliffe
Sub-District Number 6
Enumeration District 6
Registration District Bury
District Number 462
Birth Year (Estimated) 1853
Birthplace Radcliffe, Lancashire
Marital Status Married
Occupation DYER
Number in Family 5
Industry COTTON DYE WORKS
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Document Type 3
Page Number 1
Source Page Type 6
Piece/Folio 555
Registration Number RG14
Schedule Type 278
Mother
F
54
Radcliffe, Lancashire
 
Sister
F
16
Radcliffe, Lancashire
 
Sister
F
21
Radcliffe, Lancashire
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TullochArd

.... and that looks like the conclusion the Radcliffe Memorial site team came to ..... "In 1911 Thomas Edward Allen was visiting his parents Robert and S.J. Allen at 10 Albert Street, Radcliffe. He was married age 27 and working as a Blower in a Colliery, his wife was not there with him". 

 

Bury Archives has a later photo of him (no source) with the text of "58, King St., Stand Lane" still attached beneath.

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davidbohl
1 minute ago, TullochArd said:

He was married age 27

Was his 2nd marriage in 1913 then, or is that a mistake on the 1911 census ?

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TullochArd
36 minutes ago, davidbohl said:

Was his 2nd marriage in 1913 then, or is that a mistake on the 1911 census ?

 

........ I'm quoting the Radcliffe team's conclusions David but I too read the 1911 Census as "married" and further agree with the Radcliffe team that there is no mention of a wife being present at that address at that time.  It certainly looks like a 1911 Census error but more checks will confirm that.  It's also peculiar that in 1916 he uses his mother as NOK, and not his wife which was the usual case, particularly as the Pension Form says he was married to Mary Ann in 1913.

 

Without prior military experience to be serving with 2 MANCHESTER in December 1914 he must have been, in volunteering terms, pretty quick off the starting blocks

 

His MM MIC shows he was serving in 18 KLR (which was 21 Bde/30 Div) at the time of the award which was Gazetted Dec 1917.

 

 

Edited by TullochArd
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davidbohl

Thanks everybody for their contributions, I certainly have the right man and I have a lot more about his civilian and military life to work from.

Dave

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davidbohl

Couldn't find the Sim St, Radcliffe on the BEF Nominal Roll 1916 posted before.

I think it is Sion St on the 1911 Census on Ancestry

2006875109_Screenshot2021-05-0818_59_56.png.d809cea0265a854e29976bdce1cdd85f.png

 

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Ivor Anderson

His MM index Card is available here: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6126061

It shows that his MM schedule no. was 117427 and he was a Corporal with the 18th Battalion, Liverpool Regt. when he earned it.

The LG of 17th December 1917 contained awards for 3rd Ypres - September/October 1917 (H. Williamson).

 

There may be other MMs to the 18th Bn. in the same LG: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30431/supplement/13187

You can download the 18th Bn. war diary here (free at present): https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353640

Edited by Ivor Anderson
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Ivor Anderson

His MM is listed in the 18th Bn. WD on 1 Nov. 1917 for 'gallantry in action on 10th October 1917' (in LG 17-12-1917).

4 MMs listed as presented in the WD on 17th Oct. 1917 were listed in an earlier LG on 12-12-17.

Screen Shot 2021-05-09 at 08.40.30.png

Edited by Ivor Anderson
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davidbohl
Posted (edited)

That's really useful Ivor, thanks.

I''ll have a read of the diary for the 10.10.17 to see what was going on.

Edit:

Looks like they had to fend off an attempt to be captured by the enemy

From National Archives

1886477414_Screenshot2021-05-0910_02_06.png.c4f6d76db3d2d5842464fd89fdea2b3f.png

1283381111_Screenshot2021-05-0910_03_01.png.3b8ef9e447da068b9fcf17e84733d518.png

 

 

Edited by davidbohl
Diary for 10th Oct
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Ivor Anderson

Yes. He must have been part of the patrol that fought its way back while under attack. Great to know the date & action an MM was awarded for.

 

 

Edited by Ivor Anderson
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