davidbohl Posted 8 May , 2021 Share Posted 8 May , 2021 Sjt Thomas Edward Allen #28125 King's Liverpool CWGC From the BNA I'm trying to put together a paragraph on Sjt Allen, so any details about his MM in 1917 and his death in the Spring Offensive will be most welcome. I can see conflicting results on websites as to his parentage, Robert and Sarah Jane(Radcliffe) or Eli and Ellen on 1911 Census Effects and pension went to widow Mary Ann and child Wilfred (they were married in 1913) Many thanks Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 8 May , 2021 Share Posted 8 May , 2021 Do you have a year of birth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbohl Posted 8 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 8 May , 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Bardess said: Do you have a year of birth? There's a birth record for 1883 Radcliffe, Lancs Edited 8 May , 2021 by davidbohl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 8 May , 2021 Share Posted 8 May , 2021 Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: ALLEN, THOMAS EDWARD JONES GRO Reference: 1883 J Quarter in BURY, LANCASHIRE Volume 08C Page 615 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 8 May , 2021 Share Posted 8 May , 2021 Robert Allen and Sarah Jane Jones were married in Q3 1881 in Bury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 8 May , 2021 Share Posted 8 May , 2021 This site is excellent for finding out mothers maiden name before Sept 1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbohl Posted 8 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 8 May , 2021 Thanks Diane, I had them shortlisted on the 1901 census From Anc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Promenade Posted 8 May , 2021 Share Posted 8 May , 2021 Not sure is this is of any help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesterboy Posted 8 May , 2021 Share Posted 8 May , 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 8 May , 2021 Share Posted 8 May , 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, davidbohl said: There's a birth record for 1883 Radcliffe, Lancs .... and Graham Maddox in "Liverpool Pals" has him as "Radcliffe, Lancs" Promenade's post is interesting as it records him amongst soldiers departing for the BEF on 6th July 1916. His MIC records he had been in France previously from December 1914 which highlights significant prior service in the Manchester Regiment. By the first week of May 1918 the 89th Brigade (of which 18 KLR had been a part) had been reduced to what was known as the 17th (Composite) Battalion of around 700 men. On the 8th May 1918 this Battalion was subjected to an intense artillery barrage followed, at 07:30, by an infantry attack which ran over their lines to a depth of some 400-500 yards in places. It is further recorded that two companies made a successful counter attack. Edited 8 May , 2021 by TullochArd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbohl Posted 8 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 8 May , 2021 Found him on the 1911 census From FamilySearch Name Thomas Edward Allen Sex Male Age 27 Event Date 1911 Event Place Radcliffe, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Event Place (Original) Radcliffe, Radcliffe, Lancashire, England Sub-District Radcliffe Sub-District Number 6 Enumeration District 6 Registration District Bury District Number 462 Birth Year (Estimated) 1884 Birthplace Radcliffe, Lancashire Marital Status Married Occupation BLOWER Number in Family 5 Industry COLLIERY Relationship to Head of Household Son Document Type 3 Page Number 1 Source Page Type 6 Piece/Folio 555 Registration Number RG14 Schedule Type 278 Thomas Edward Allen's Parents and Siblings OPEN ALL Mr Robert Allen Father M 58 Radcliffe, Lancashire Name Mr Robert Allen Sex Male Age 58 Event Date 1911 Event Place Radcliffe, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom Event Place (Original) Radcliffe, Radcliffe, Lancashire, England Sub-District Radcliffe Sub-District Number 6 Enumeration District 6 Registration District Bury District Number 462 Birth Year (Estimated) 1853 Birthplace Radcliffe, Lancashire Marital Status Married Occupation DYER Number in Family 5 Industry COTTON DYE WORKS Relationship to Head of Household Head Document Type 3 Page Number 1 Source Page Type 6 Piece/Folio 555 Registration Number RG14 Schedule Type 278 Mrs S J Allen Mother F 54 Radcliffe, Lancashire Mary Gibby Allen Sister F 16 Radcliffe, Lancashire Etty Allen Sister F 21 Radcliffe, Lancashire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 8 May , 2021 Share Posted 8 May , 2021 .... and that looks like the conclusion the Radcliffe Memorial site team came to ..... "In 1911 Thomas Edward Allen was visiting his parents Robert and S.J. Allen at 10 Albert Street, Radcliffe. He was married age 27 and working as a Blower in a Colliery, his wife was not there with him". Bury Archives has a later photo of him (no source) with the text of "58, King St., Stand Lane" still attached beneath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbohl Posted 8 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 8 May , 2021 1 minute ago, TullochArd said: He was married age 27 Was his 2nd marriage in 1913 then, or is that a mistake on the 1911 census ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 8 May , 2021 Share Posted 8 May , 2021 (edited) 36 minutes ago, davidbohl said: Was his 2nd marriage in 1913 then, or is that a mistake on the 1911 census ? ........ I'm quoting the Radcliffe team's conclusions David but I too read the 1911 Census as "married" and further agree with the Radcliffe team that there is no mention of a wife being present at that address at that time. It certainly looks like a 1911 Census error but more checks will confirm that. It's also peculiar that in 1916 he uses his mother as NOK, and not his wife which was the usual case, particularly as the Pension Form says he was married to Mary Ann in 1913. Without prior military experience to be serving with 2 MANCHESTER in December 1914 he must have been, in volunteering terms, pretty quick off the starting blocks His MM MIC shows he was serving in 18 KLR (which was 21 Bde/30 Div) at the time of the award which was Gazetted Dec 1917. Edited 8 May , 2021 by TullochArd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbohl Posted 8 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 8 May , 2021 Thanks everybody for their contributions, I certainly have the right man and I have a lot more about his civilian and military life to work from. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbohl Posted 8 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 8 May , 2021 Couldn't find the Sim St, Radcliffe on the BEF Nominal Roll 1916 posted before. I think it is Sion St on the 1911 Census on Ancestry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Anderson Posted 8 May , 2021 Share Posted 8 May , 2021 (edited) His MM index Card is available here: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6126061 It shows that his MM schedule no. was 117427 and he was a Corporal with the 18th Battalion, Liverpool Regt. when he earned it. The LG of 17th December 1917 contained awards for 3rd Ypres - September/October 1917 (H. Williamson). There may be other MMs to the 18th Bn. in the same LG: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30431/supplement/13187 You can download the 18th Bn. war diary here (free at present): https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353640 Edited 9 May , 2021 by Ivor Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Anderson Posted 9 May , 2021 Share Posted 9 May , 2021 His MM is listed in the 18th Bn. WD on 1 Nov. 1917 for 'gallantry in action on 10th October 1917' (in LG 17-12-1917). 4 MMs listed as presented in the WD on 17th Oct. 1917 were listed in an earlier LG on 12-12-17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbohl Posted 9 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 9 May , 2021 That's really useful Ivor, thanks. I''ll have a read of the diary for the 10.10.17 to see what was going on. Edit: Looks like they had to fend off an attempt to be captured by the enemy From National Archives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Anderson Posted 10 May , 2021 Share Posted 10 May , 2021 (edited) Yes. He must have been part of the patrol that fought its way back while under attack. Great to know the date & action an MM was awarded for. Edited 10 May , 2021 by Ivor Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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