German plane with swastika to identify

[airdaniele]

Hello Sirs,

which type of aircraft is this?

Thanks, Daniele.

 

 

 

 

 

[Alan24]

The swastika is the left facing type used by Indian religions as a symbol of divinity and good luck prior to its modification and use in the 1930s by Nazi Germany by changing to right facing and rotating 45 degrees.

 

I wonder if it brought the pilot any good luck on this occasion. 

 

As to the plane type, I'll leave that to others, although there's not much left.

[KizmeRD]

Values and meanings of symbols were different in Imperial Germany during the Great War, and pilots often chose other well known symbols too...

MB

 

See also,

 

[Fovant]

Looking at the shape of the fin and rudder, I think this is a Rumpler C.IV.

 

The origin of the swastika is from Sanskrit. It is a compound of 'su' (meaning good) and 'astika' (meaning a sign or symbol). When two vowels are combined there is a liguistic rule called 'sandhi', which means that the first vowel is converted into a consonant, so 'u' becomes 'v' – svastika. In German a 'w' is pronounced as 'v', hence the eventual spelling of swastika.

 

The swastika was also used in the UK, such as by the War Savings Association. I have a savings card and stamps of a Sopwith employee and a couple of badges with the swastika on. It was used flat rather than at 45 degrees.

[NigelS]

3 hours ago, Fovant said:

Looking at the shape of the fin and rudder, I think this is a Rumpler C.IV.

 

The origin of the swastika is from Sanskrit. It is a compound of 'su' (meaning good) and 'astika' (meaning a sign or symbol). When two vowels are combined there is a liguistic rule called 'sandhi', which means that the first vowel is converted into a consonant, so 'u' becomes 'v' – svastika. In German a 'w' is pronounced as 'v', hence the eventual spelling of swastika.

 

The swastika was also used in the UK, such as by the War Savings Association. I have a savings card and stamps of a Sopwith employee and a couple of badges with the swastika on. It was used flat rather than at 45 degrees.

 

The right facing swastika was also used as an insignia by both the Finnish (1918-45) & Latvian (1918-1940) air forces at various angles and colours

 

NigelS

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Discussed in previous posts, this is on a tomb within Coventry Cathedral, just about the only thing to survive the German bombs.

Now that's what I call good luck:

 

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/187114-swastika-badge-in-ww1/?do=findComment&comment=2177095

 

Edited 3 May , 2021 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[nils d]

16 hours ago, KizmeRD said:

Values and meanings of symbols were different in Imperial Germany during the Great War, and pilots often chose other well known symbols too...

MB

 

See also,

 

Voss was not Jewish.

[KizmeRD]

Sorry, I wasn’t making any assertions regarding any individual pilot’s religion, just the fact that symbols used on WW1 aircraft cannot be intrinsically linked with subsequent ideologies and it would be wrong to associate these with political movements that hadn’t yet come into existence. i.e. there is no contemporary connection to Nazism, or indeed to Zionism.

MB

 

 

[healdav]

On 03/05/2021 at 11:03, Fovant said:

Looking at the shape of the fin and rudder, I think this is a Rumpler C.IV.

 

The origin of the swastika is from Sanskrit. It is a compound of 'su' (meaning good) and 'astika' (meaning a sign or symbol). When two vowels are combined there is a liguistic rule called 'sandhi', which means that the first vowel is converted into a consonant, so 'u' becomes 'v' – svastika. In German a 'w' is pronounced as 'v', hence the eventual spelling of swastika.

 

The swastika was also used in the UK, such as by the War Savings Association. I have a savings card and stamps of a Sopwith employee and a couple of badges with the swastika on. It was used flat rather than at 45 degrees.

I have a couple of books, notably Kim and Jungle Book which have swastikas on the cover. And they are from the very early 1900s.

[mike st]

There are swastikas in the corner of the WW1 panels on the Swansea War memorial.

They are clearly there as a decoration.

[edwin astill]

The old Court House in Nottingham has the Roman fasces on its frontage.

 

Edwin

[MikeyH]

I also think the downed aircraft is a Rumpler C.IV.  Have found an illustration of a Breguet flown by an American pilot in November 1918, with a prominent swastika on its tailfin.

A personal good luck symbol.

Mike.

 

 

 

Edited 4 July , 2021 by MikeyH

[GreyC]

The Iron Cross was painted onto the plane between 29th Oct. 1916 and 18th March 1918. After and before that the IC looked different. Though the plane could have been flown and shot down later, as it took time to change the designs of the cross. On one of the phtos the type number is visible, maybe a detail scan could bring more information. Starts with a "c", so an armed two-seater airplane.

GreyC

Edited 4 July , 2021 by GreyC

[nils d]

On 03/07/2021 at 23:45, mike st said:

There are swastikas in the corner of the WW1 panels on the Swansea War memorial.

They are clearly there as a decoration.

l cant remember where exactly but somewhere in Scotland theres a war memorial with tbe "crooked cross" on it.

[yperman]

On 04/05/2021 at 11:13, KizmeRD said:

 no contemporary connection to Nazism

 

 

 

In the Kapp putsch of March 1920 Frei Korps units used it.

[KizmeRD]

3 hours ago, yperman said:

In the Kapp putsch of March 1920 Frei Korps units used it.

Not just one unit of the Freikorp (The Ehrhardt Marine Brigade) but more significantly, Hitler also adopted it as the official insignia of his fledgeling Nazi Party (from 1920 onwards).
The fact remains that during the Great War years 1914-18, the Hakenkreutz was still commonly used in many countries (not just in Germany) as a symbol of ‘good luck’ - but as we all now know… things were about to change.

MB