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Remembered Today:

James Moreton 18024 killed or not ??


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DavidOwen

It really is a mystery isn't it?

Will download the war diary to see what it says for the day.

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corisande

Yes, the War Diar is something that we have missed so far. Interesting to see what it says about that day

 

Two of Miriam Locker's daughters produced illegitimate children (as recorded on trees). Both later married, but did not take their children into their marriages. So illegitamacy was not unknown, nay was common, in the family

 

1. Charlotte Locker had an illegitimate daughter Effie b1890, & who ded 1896

 

2. Dorothy Locker had a son Wilfred Percy b1889, who was brought up by his grandmother , is in 1939 register & died 1963

 

I still think James Deville is the most likely alter ego for James Moreton, but I don't think it is proveable. We have no birth cert date for either, so cannot prove they are the same man

And there is also Leonard Dyer, b1895 , the other "nurse child" with Miriam Locker in 1901

 

Once you have the WD, it should at least say how many of the bat. were killed that day, and we could see if that tallies with CWGC burials for same set of facts

 

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DavidOwen

No entries from 25/2/1917 to 28/2/1917 so no help there

 

image.png

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corisande

Getting really odd now.  CGWC shows 13 dead from 2nd Bat Lincs Regt on 27 Feb 1917

 

CWGC record of that

 

Think I need to lie down in a dark room for a few minutes!

 

And I need to add neither of the "nurse child" of 1901 census have any birth record, so either has the potential to be  James Moreton

Edited by corisande
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DavidOwen
1 minute ago, corisande said:

Getting really odd now.  CGWC shows 13 dead from 2nd Bat Lincs Regt on 27 Feb 1917

 

CWGC record of that

 

Think I need to lie down in a dark room for a few minutes!

 

 

OOPS - wrong Battalion - bear with me!!

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corisande
1 minute ago, DavidOwen said:

OOPS - wrong Battalion - bear with me!!

 

That was my suspicion. but I was not going to say so, I thought I put it more politely with the full details "CGWC shows 13 dead from 2nd Bat Lincs Regt on 27 Feb 1917 " :)

 

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RaySearching

MIC and Medal Roll show seventh Battalion 

 

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DavidOwen

The original war diary page above is 7th Bn.

 

Below the 2nd Bn (two pages to give context)

 

14 OR killed not the 13 on CWGC  so there we have it....

 

image.png

 

image.png

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corisande

Thanks for the WD. It sort of confirms the drift of where we have been going wityh this thread.

 

My guess would be that he just got left off the list that the CWGC got, perhaps expiring in a different CCS.

 

Although we have not proved beyond doubt that he died KIA, the Soldiers effects and the fact that his Grandmother was paid a pension does prove that he almost certainly was.

 

There probably is enough for a In from the Cold submission, but that is not within my competence! See what the experts say

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GraemeClarke

Morning,

 

Many thanks to everyone who has put so much time and effort into this conundrum. 

 

I must admit, with focusing on the effects record, I totally missed the 7th Battalion on the MiC etc. 

 

Most strange, not really sure where to go from here,

 

Regards,

 

Graeme

 

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johntanner

See what Terry thinks as IFCP, so he’s commemorate at least even if we can’t be certain who he was born as? 
 

Fascinating thread though.

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Out of curiosity, for the small fee of £1.50 (I'm sure it used to be £10) I downloaded his Will.

 

I wasn't expecting to see anything we didn't already know, but perhaps there is some more info from the interpretation of the will, so here goes.

 

It does seem to confirm he died as a soldier of the 2nd Battalion rather than the 7th. Medal roll shows he first served with the 7th so must have been transferred to 2nd at some point - could that have been after his wounding on 3rd/4th July 1916 at Railway Alley. To back this up, Soldier's Effects also says 2nd Battalion.

 

His first Will is dated 16/10/15. He would have been in military service when this was written, so this almost certainly shows him as a volunteer before the Derby (Group) Scheme was introduced. From other research I've done, Derby Scheme men did not take part in the Battle of the Somme in Early July 1916. Some Derby men were sent as reinforcements in late July 1916 to units which were re-equipping out of the line. 

 

I understand soldiers completed their wills when about to go overseas. His first Will dated 16/10/15 could coincide with his going overseas to France. Did he get the 1914/15 Star?

 

Is the second will date significant? 05/02/1917 - could that be when he transferred to 2nd Battalion? Why would he have written out his will again?

 

As I thought, Jas. is short for James, not Jasper.

 

He signs his will Moreton James rather James Moreton - FreeBMD shows two of that name who died in infancy. 

 

Strangely he gives his number as 18049 not 18024.

 

I am more than happy to pass on the documents received from the Probate Service to anyone who is making an IFTCP application. Just PM me with an email address. 

 

 

will 2.JPG

will 3.JPG

will1.JPG

Edited by Alan24
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DavidOwen

No result for a 18049 surname James on FMP.

The only 18049 Lincolnshire Regiment on FMP is a George Smith - with his own MIC.

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RaySearching
1 hour ago, Alan24 said:

Strangely he gives his number as 18049 not 18024.

 

 Its my opinion that the the service number 18049 appears to have been added to his will at a later date

with a different writing instrument ! 

 

 

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The will shows page 13 at the top. Presumably, this is from his AB64.

 

Would this have been recovered from his body, implying that his body was recovered or, would a soldier going up to the front line leave his AB64 with other personal equipment back with the battalion's wagons lines? 

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GraemeClarke

Morning,

 

Once again, many thanks, intriguing,

 

Regards,

 

Graeme

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RaySearching

There is a James Moreton on the 1911 census at Victoria Barracks Portsmouth 

aged 30 serving with the 2nd Bn Lincs  born Grimsby

He may have been a serving soldier at the outbreak of the war or a reservist]

 

Unfortunately I have had no success at identifying him, to eliminate him , No corresponding birth record ?

 

1868168631_moreton1911.JPG.36e83670e41f194b2a472642fa67243e.JPG

 

 

Ray

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1 hour ago, RaySearching said:

There is a James Moreton on the 1911 census at Victoria Barracks Portsmouth 

aged 30 serving with the 2nd Bn Lincs  born Grimsby

He may have been a serving soldier at the outbreak of the war or a reservist]

 

Unfortunately I have had no success at identifying him, to eliminate him , No corresponding birth record ?

 

1868168631_moreton1911.JPG.36e83670e41f194b2a472642fa67243e.JPG

 

 

Ray

 

Ray, I think your man above is HERE

He is a veteran of the Boar War and was discharged in Oct 1911 having served 12 years with the colours. 

 

And this is him in 1891 here with his father, Also James.

 

There appears no link to the Locker family. 

 

Edited by Alan24
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RaySearching

Alan

 

I do not have Find My Past so cannot look at the records

Can we assume that he is eliminated then?

 

Ray

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14 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

Alan

 

I do not have Find My Past so cannot look at the records

Can we assume that he is eliminated then?

 

Ray

Ray, based on the signatures on the Will and Attestation form, this man can be eliminated as they don't bear any resemblance.

Therefore it is not...

Pte. 5401 James Moreton 2nd Lincs.

(He did get to the rank of lance sergeant but was reduced to the ranks for drunkenness). 

 

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