Admin DavidOwen Posted 1 May , 2021 Admin Share Posted 1 May , 2021 It really is a mystery isn't it? Will download the war diary to see what it says for the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 1 May , 2021 Share Posted 1 May , 2021 Yes, the War Diar is something that we have missed so far. Interesting to see what it says about that day Two of Miriam Locker's daughters produced illegitimate children (as recorded on trees). Both later married, but did not take their children into their marriages. So illegitamacy was not unknown, nay was common, in the family 1. Charlotte Locker had an illegitimate daughter Effie b1890, & who ded 1896 2. Dorothy Locker had a son Wilfred Percy b1889, who was brought up by his grandmother , is in 1939 register & died 1963 I still think James Deville is the most likely alter ego for James Moreton, but I don't think it is proveable. We have no birth cert date for either, so cannot prove they are the same man And there is also Leonard Dyer, b1895 , the other "nurse child" with Miriam Locker in 1901 Once you have the WD, it should at least say how many of the bat. were killed that day, and we could see if that tallies with CWGC burials for same set of facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 1 May , 2021 Admin Share Posted 1 May , 2021 No entries from 25/2/1917 to 28/2/1917 so no help there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 1 May , 2021 Share Posted 1 May , 2021 (edited) Getting really odd now. CGWC shows 13 dead from 2nd Bat Lincs Regt on 27 Feb 1917 CWGC record of that Think I need to lie down in a dark room for a few minutes! And I need to add neither of the "nurse child" of 1901 census have any birth record, so either has the potential to be James Moreton Edited 1 May , 2021 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 1 May , 2021 Admin Share Posted 1 May , 2021 1 minute ago, corisande said: Getting really odd now. CGWC shows 13 dead from 2nd Bat Lincs Regt on 27 Feb 1917 CWGC record of that Think I need to lie down in a dark room for a few minutes! OOPS - wrong Battalion - bear with me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 1 May , 2021 Share Posted 1 May , 2021 1 minute ago, DavidOwen said: OOPS - wrong Battalion - bear with me!! That was my suspicion. but I was not going to say so, I thought I put it more politely with the full details "CGWC shows 13 dead from 2nd Bat Lincs Regt on 27 Feb 1917 " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 1 May , 2021 Share Posted 1 May , 2021 MIC and Medal Roll show seventh Battalion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 1 May , 2021 Admin Share Posted 1 May , 2021 The original war diary page above is 7th Bn. Below the 2nd Bn (two pages to give context) 14 OR killed not the 13 on CWGC so there we have it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 1 May , 2021 Share Posted 1 May , 2021 Thanks for the WD. It sort of confirms the drift of where we have been going wityh this thread. My guess would be that he just got left off the list that the CWGC got, perhaps expiring in a different CCS. Although we have not proved beyond doubt that he died KIA, the Soldiers effects and the fact that his Grandmother was paid a pension does prove that he almost certainly was. There probably is enough for a In from the Cold submission, but that is not within my competence! See what the experts say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeClarke Posted 2 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 2 May , 2021 Morning, Many thanks to everyone who has put so much time and effort into this conundrum. I must admit, with focusing on the effects record, I totally missed the 7th Battalion on the MiC etc. Most strange, not really sure where to go from here, Regards, Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntanner Posted 2 May , 2021 Share Posted 2 May , 2021 See what Terry thinks as IFCP, so he’s commemorate at least even if we can’t be certain who he was born as? Fascinating thread though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 3 May , 2021 Share Posted 3 May , 2021 Out of curiosity, for the small fee of £1.50 (I'm sure it used to be £10) I downloaded his Will. I wasn't expecting to see anything we didn't already know, but perhaps there is some more info from the interpretation of the will, so here goes. It does seem to confirm he died as a soldier of the 2nd Battalion rather than the 7th. Medal roll shows he first served with the 7th so must have been transferred to 2nd at some point - could that have been after his wounding on 3rd/4th July 1916 at Railway Alley. To back this up, Soldier's Effects also says 2nd Battalion. His first Will is dated 16/10/15. He would have been in military service when this was written, so this almost certainly shows him as a volunteer before the Derby (Group) Scheme was introduced. From other research I've done, Derby Scheme men did not take part in the Battle of the Somme in Early July 1916. Some Derby men were sent as reinforcements in late July 1916 to units which were re-equipping out of the line. I understand soldiers completed their wills when about to go overseas. His first Will dated 16/10/15 could coincide with his going overseas to France. Did he get the 1914/15 Star? Is the second will date significant? 05/02/1917 - could that be when he transferred to 2nd Battalion? Why would he have written out his will again? As I thought, Jas. is short for James, not Jasper. He signs his will Moreton James rather James Moreton - FreeBMD shows two of that name who died in infancy. Strangely he gives his number as 18049 not 18024. I am more than happy to pass on the documents received from the Probate Service to anyone who is making an IFTCP application. Just PM me with an email address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 3 May , 2021 Admin Share Posted 3 May , 2021 No result for a 18049 surname James on FMP. The only 18049 Lincolnshire Regiment on FMP is a George Smith - with his own MIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 3 May , 2021 Share Posted 3 May , 2021 1 hour ago, Alan24 said: Strangely he gives his number as 18049 not 18024. Its my opinion that the the service number 18049 appears to have been added to his will at a later date with a different writing instrument ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 3 May , 2021 Share Posted 3 May , 2021 The will shows page 13 at the top. Presumably, this is from his AB64. Would this have been recovered from his body, implying that his body was recovered or, would a soldier going up to the front line leave his AB64 with other personal equipment back with the battalion's wagons lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeClarke Posted 4 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 4 May , 2021 Morning, Once again, many thanks, intriguing, Regards, Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 4 May , 2021 Share Posted 4 May , 2021 There is a James Moreton on the 1911 census at Victoria Barracks Portsmouth aged 30 serving with the 2nd Bn Lincs born Grimsby He may have been a serving soldier at the outbreak of the war or a reservist] Unfortunately I have had no success at identifying him, to eliminate him , No corresponding birth record ? Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 4 May , 2021 Share Posted 4 May , 2021 On 05/05/2021 at 02:22, RaySearching said: There is a James Moreton on the 1911 census at Victoria Barracks Portsmouth aged 30 serving with the 2nd Bn Lincs born Grimsby He may have been a serving soldier at the outbreak of the war or a reservist] Unfortunately I have had no success at identifying him, to eliminate him , No corresponding birth record ? Ray Ray, I think your man above is HERE He is a veteran of the Boar War and was discharged in Oct 1911 having served 12 years with the colours. And this is him in 1891 here with his father, Also James. There appears no link to the Locker family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 4 May , 2021 Share Posted 4 May , 2021 Alan I do not have Find My Past so cannot look at the records Can we assume that he is eliminated then? Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan24 Posted 4 May , 2021 Share Posted 4 May , 2021 14 minutes ago, RaySearching said: Alan I do not have Find My Past so cannot look at the records Can we assume that he is eliminated then? Ray Ray, based on the signatures on the Will and Attestation form, this man can be eliminated as they don't bear any resemblance. Therefore it is not... Pte. 5401 James Moreton 2nd Lincs. (He did get to the rank of lance sergeant but was reduced to the ranks for drunkenness). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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