Jump to content
Great War Forum

Remembered Today:

James Moreton 18024 killed or not ??


Recommended Posts

GraemeClarke

Morning,

 

The effects register records the death of a Private 18024 James Moreton, 2nd Battalion, Lincolnshire Regiment on 27 February 1917, but with a notation of 'claim outstanding'.

 

He is not recorded in either the CWGC or SDGW.

 

He is discussed in a PDF regarding the Tutbury RoH 

http://tbor.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Tutbury-Book-of-Remembrance-Volume-I-2nd-Edition.pdf

 

and Fold 3 (to which I do not have access) shows a pension record recording 'death'.

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=WesternFrontAssociation&indiv=try&h=153755

 

His MiC bears no comments.

 

The War Diary records a raid on the enemy line but without noting any casualties as a result.

 

Does anyone have any comments as to whether James was killed or not ?

 

Regards,

 

Graeme

 

 

effects.jpg

Edited by GraemeClarke
Link to post
Share on other sites

At the time of death he was without parents or siblings. He may have grown up an orphan.

 

The sole legit. and therefore NoK is his grandmother, which makes me wonder if an alias could be involved here somewhere.

 

Have you checked census records (particularly for Miriam Locker) for when he was a boy to see if any other names were being used?

Edited by Alan24
Link to post
Share on other sites
George Rayner

Within Fold3 there are 5 pension records. This one records KiA

image.png.d15758e3e764f2e290de44578e44d62e.png

 

Acknowledgement to Fold3 via Ancestry

 

George

Link to post
Share on other sites
George Rayner

Perhaps he was Percy Locker and as Alan suggests an alias

image.png.1d44e0e3acad42d9321ace9668179dc8.png

Courtesy of Ancestry 

1911 England Census for Miriam Locker

Derbyshire

Marston on Dove, Hoon and Hatton

 

 

George

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
GraemeClarke
Posted (edited)

Morning all,

 

Many thanks for the replies.

 

Locker is discussed in the PDF however there are no casualties with any similar names etc on SDGW (which I accept is not definitive),

 

Does the 'claim outstanding' mean anything to anyone ??

 

Just checked Red Cross and no prisoners in either name.

 

Thanks again,

 

Regards,

 

Graeme

rsz_image2.jpg

Edited by GraemeClarke
Link to post
Share on other sites

Not in the GRO Overseas Index under either surname.

 

An alias is a slim to no chance considering his medals, SER and post death pension are to Moreton.

 

The IFTCP are/have been going through the SER. Might be an idea to PM Terry Denham to see if he's in the pipeline or what conclusions they drew, if any.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Admin
DavidOwen

There is a record of him suffering  a shrapnel wound to his side on 4th July 1916 in the 51st Field Ambulance admission book, sent to 22CCS. So he was serving under that name and number. https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=S2%2FGBM%2FMH106%2FMH106-78%2F0021&parentid=GBM%2FMH106%2F217460

 

EDIT: BUT they record him as B Company 7th RFA... which is an incorrect transcription as it actually reads B Company 7th Lincs - so ignore this bit!!

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

EDIT: BUT they record him as B Company 7th RFA... which is an incorrect transcription as it actually reads B Company 7th Lincs - so ignore this bit!!

I saw the transcription for this and dismissed it being a coincidence of name since it showed RFA.

Should have dug deeper like David.

 

7th Lincs were at Railway Alley, on the Somme and relieved on the night of 4th July.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Admin
DavidOwen

I have submitted a correction so hopefully it will be put right

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Admin
DavidOwen

Am I reading the pension card correctly as the claim being made in February 1924? If so this newspaper clipping from the Ashbourne Telegraph of 1st February 1924 is of significant interest! Might the claim actually be fraudulent?

 

(Image courtesy FMP)

 

image.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, GraemeClarke said:

Graeme

 

 

effects.jpg

Edited 7 hours ago by GraemeClarke

 

Just to muddy the water a little bit, Soldiers Effects shows the War Gratuity was paid to his Grandmother and Sole Legatee, Mrs Marion Locker.

 

That would imply either a Soldiers Will or Civil Probate. In fact the Government Probate Service does have a Soldiers Will for this man - but as Jasper Moreton.

 

456927014_JasperMoreton1917SoldiersWillsourcedprobatesearchservicegovuk.png.a43cb38694048108eb3a9549a1f9ba94.png

 

Source: https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Wills?Surname=Moreton&SurnameGrants=Moreton&YearOfDeath=1917&YearOfDeathGrants=1917&IsGrantSearch=False&IsCalendarSearch=False#soldiers

 

Could be a transcription error or a cataloguing mistake, and makes no difference to the absence of an obvious entry on CWGC, so just throwing it into the mix.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites

'Marion' must be an error as everything else says Miriam.

 

I also wonder if jasper is a transcription error - James>Jas.>Jasper. - you can see how that could occur.

 

In 1901 Miriam (widow) had her daughter Charlotte A Locker (single) and illegitimate(?) grandson Wilfred P Locker at the same address. 

 

I would think that Wilfred P in 1901 is the same as Percy in 1911.

 

Also in 1901 are two 'Nurse Children', one being James Deville age 5.

 

Edit: 1891 Charlotte A is listed as Head and Wilfred P as Nephew...so maybe not the illegitimate son of Charlotte.

Edited by Alan24
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DavidOwen said:

Here is the record of James Morton (sic) who died on 27th February 1917 as per the pension card. This could be a different soldier or he could have transferred?

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/305834/JAMES MORTON/

 

Edit: Looking deeper I suspect this may just be a coincidence.

Son of Henry and Frances Jane Morton, of 67, Croft St., Heckmondwike, Yorks.

 

The above may relate to Henry Morton & Francis Moore married in Bakewell Derbyshire Q1 1876.

 

Might help to eliminate this line of enquiry. 

 

Edit; The 1911 census for Frances Jane Morton quite helpfully (although incorrectly!) lists her dead husband and several children who had died. 

There doesn't look to be any link with our James Moreton 18024. 

Edited by Alan24
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Admin
DavidOwen

Another one to eliminate might be the James Moreton who joined the Lincolnshire Regiment in 1899 aged 19yrs 1 month and served to term being discharged after 12 years in October 1911 (so possibly on reserve at outbreak of war?) His service record is available on FMP Here He was from Great Gonerby in Lincolnshire and father was also James.

His record makes interesting reading, a number of medals, promoted and reduced to the ranks by DCM.

 

According to the 1891 Census he was 10 years old at the time. No obvious connection to a Miriam Locker. 1881 census also has him listed and born in Great Gonerby, but so far I haven't found a birth or baptism record for him.

 

Edit: Found a record for a James Jacob Moreton born 1880 Grantham, mother's maiden name Fenton so again no direct link with the Grandmother Locker.

FMP link

 

Anyone compared that newspaper article I posted earlier against the date of the pension claim?

Link to post
Share on other sites
corisande

It does prove that he died but the papers reported his death, but when you put it with Soldiers Effects, it certainly looks as if he did die

 

moreton.jpg.8a73e6a5949dd824e2dbb2f92fb9cdb4.jpg

 

I suspect the answer is with the "grandmother" Ms Locker and her real relationshipp to James Moreton. It looks very complicated to try to find the answer. For example "James Deville" of 1901 census with her, appears to have no birth record, nor anything other thn that single entry.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, corisande said:

I suspect the answer is with the "grandmother" Ms Locker and her real relationshipp to James Moreton. It looks very complicated to try to find the answer. For example "James Deville" of 1901 census with her, appears to have no birth record, nor anything other thn that single entry.

 

Do we have any idea of James Moreton's age? can't see anything in the posts above.

 

Is James Deville, the nurse child age 5 in 1901, our best bet at the moment? If so why did he enlist as Moreton? 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Admin
DavidOwen

I cannot find a record of a marriage Locker / Moreton either.

Link to post
Share on other sites
corisande

I cannot find a record of a marriage Locker / Moreton either.

 

Yes, that is my point. She is very mysterious.

 

No marriage of Locker to a Miriam either.

 

James Deville has no birth record under that name

 

James Moreton has no obvious birth record (there is a James Moreton born Staffs Oct 1897, who is in 1901 & 1911 census and died 1970 and is clearly not our man)

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Admin
DavidOwen
4 minutes ago, Alan24 said:

 

Do we have any idea of James Moreton's age? can't see anything in the posts above.

 

Is James Deville, the nurse child age 5 in 1901, our best bet at the moment? If so why did he enlist as Moreton? 

 

 

 

If he was the man whose service record I posted above he would have been 35 in 1917. His alleged grandmother was 91 in 1924 then the ages could relate in terms of generations.

 

I still cannot find a casualty with the number 18024 which could be him on CWGC.

Link to post
Share on other sites
corisande

This seems to be the family - Ancestry Tree - click. But the owner has not unearthed a Moreton or a Deville (though this would not preclude any illegitimate births by one of Miriam's daughters before marriage). I think this is our Miriam Locker though

 

locker-tree.jpg.08c9de8a0523237eb6ff3e92221d6945.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
corisande

The Key Pension Card (Fold 3) is this one, which shows that the pension was actually paid to Miriam Locker until her death in 1924 (and that cross checks with a death record for her on Free BMD in Jan/Mar 1924 in Burton))

 

I think we have established beyond reasonable doubt that he died KIA in Feb 1917, and that a Pension was paid to his "grandmother"

 

Although he served as and died as James Moreton, we have no idea what he was born as.

 

But whatever way, there is no CWGC entry for him

 

pension.jpg.4b4bc78c8c60b6fc1b1ca32b2c4981fd.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
corisande
9 minutes ago, DavidOwen said:

According to the regimental museum there is no Moreton or Morton listed with the number 18024 nor anyone else with that number

 

I think that just means they have no record of his death, but as his death was not ecorded by CWGC it is not surprising that Lincs do not have it

 

He served without doubt and got the two WW1 medals

 

medal.jpg.89c4efcfd4110ab2da39a78d7ceb41bc.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...