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Help Needed- LT A.H Duffey WW1


Elleinad84

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Hi,

I’m looking for help again with regards to another relative of mine who fought in WW1. 
His name was Alfred Hesperus ( Hespenus) Duffey (Duffy). Born 23 Oct 1893 in Dublin, Ireland. 
I know he was in the Machine Gun Corp and made a temp Lieutenant in The Reserve Household Battalion. 
I’d be very grateful if anyone could share their knowledge and insight into what these were and where possibly he could have fought in WW1. 
 

Thanks a million, 

Danielle

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There is a Medal Index Card for a Private 19184 Alfred Duffey, Royal Dublin Fusiliers who was commissioned on the 1st August 1917 and would subsequently see service with the 3rd Battalion, Machine Gun Corps.

 

He had originally landed at Gallipoli on the 9th August 1915 with the Royal Dublin Fusiliers and so qualified for the 1914/15 Star, as well as the Victory Medal & British War Medal.

 

As an officer he had to apply for his medals. The contact address given in May 1920 was 105 Marlborough Road, Donnybrook, Dublin.

 

Also as an officer his service records are not online. They can be viewed at the National Archive at Kew, or you can pay for Kew to send you a copy, (not generally recommended by those who have used that service and reported back on the forum), or pay a researcher to take a copy. The National Archive have only one match for an Alfred Duffey, and that is Lieutenant Alfred Hesperus Duffey, Machine Gun Corps.

His service records are held under reference WO 339/73282

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1127115

There is a good chance they will include his other ranks records as well.

 

Looks like it was the 6th and 7th Battalions of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers that landed at Gallipoli at about the right time.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-dublin-fusiliers/

War diaries for units serving at Gallipoli can be viewed online with an Ancestry subscription.

 

He would have returned to England early 1917 and attended an Officer Training Unit as a Cadet. His commissioning from Cadet to Second Lieutenant in the Reserve Household Battalion appeared in the Supplement to the London Gazette dated 23 August 1917, (page 8669).

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30247/supplement/8669/data.pdf

 

From our parent site, the Long, Long Trail.

 

The Household Battalion

 

This unusual unit was formed as an infantry battalion at Knightsbridge Barracks in London on 1 September 1916. The troops were drawn from the reserve units of the Household Cavalry (the 1st and 2nd Life Guards and the Royal Horse Guards). Much retraining and re-equipment was necessary to convert the cavalry troops into foot soldiers, capable of conducting the increasingly mechanised war on the Western Front.

 

The battalion landed in France on 9 November 1916 and shortly afterwards was posted to join the 10th Brigade of the 4th Division, an experienced formation of the regular army that had been in France since August 1914.

 

The Division was heavily engaged for the first time in the Battle of Arras in April 1917. Later in the year, in September and October 1917, the 4th Division took part in the latter stages of the Third Battle of Ypres, which is more often called Passchendaele. Losses to the Household Battalion were particularly severe on 9 and 10 October 1917, when the battalion attacked near Poelcapelle.

 

On 10 February 1918, the battalion was effectively disbanded as part of a widespread reorganisation of the British infantry in France. The men went initially to the 11th Entrenching Battalion, where they became available for posting to any unit that required a draft. The last cadre of battalion headquarters was disbanded on 15 March 1918.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/cavalry-regiments/the-household-battalion/

There is no mention of the Battalion having a Reserve.

 

War Diaries for units serving in France & Flanders can currently be downloaded for free from the National Archive. You do need to have an account, but if you haven’t got one, even that can be set up as part of placing your first order – no financial details required.

Here is the link to the  Household Battalion Diary. As an officer you have a much better chance of him being mentioned, although it can’t be guaranteed.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352149

 

The 3rd Battalion Machine Gun Corps was the Machine Gun Battalion of the 3rd Division. The Battalion had formed on the 6th March 1918 by amalgamating the 4 Machine Gun Companies that were spread throughout the Division.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/3rd-division/

Their War Diary can be found at the National Archive here.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352052

 

Hope that gets you started, (and that it's the right man!)

 

Peter

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From 'Pals at Suvla Bay'

image.png.31419bf09fdc723c448c355aabd8b3eb.png

image.png.7ec82b3e9404628510213d821290b4e9.png

 

 

image.png.d529301f5fcba62e77fd907381d57a10.png

 

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2 hours ago, museumtom said:

Medal Inde Card here. Free at the moment once you register.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D2696065

 

The National Archive source only gives you the front side, which doesn't include the contact address and the reference to the list of medal eligibility being received from the O.C. 3rd Bn M.G. Corps.. It is also in black and white. However even the most basic free account with Ancestry gives you access to images of both sides of the card in colour.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1262/images/30850_A000472-01842?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Bky5000&_phstart=successSource&pId=396852

 

Cheers,

Peter

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17 hours ago, PRC said:

His commissioning from Cadet to Second Lieutenant in the Reserve Household Battalion appeared in the Supplement to the London Gazette dated 23 August 1917, (page 8669).

 

The British Army October 1917 Monthly List does show him with the The Reserve Household Battalion but he is not amongst the officers shown as attached to the Household Battalion.

(Column 273, Second Lieutenant A.H. Duffey with seniority from the 1st August 1917).

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/106323681

 

It’s difficult to make out from the way the page has been scanned on the National Library of Scotland site, but in the British Army January 1918 Monthly List he is still shown as a Second Lieutenant with The Reserve Household Battalion, but it now looks like he was attached to the Household Battalion. (Column 273).

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/123135789

Same scanning issue in the March 1918 Monthly List, (and February 1918).

(Column 273) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103593026

 

There is no A.H. Duffey listed in the Active and Reserve List of Officers in the British Army July 1918 Army List. But there is an A.H Duffy, a Second Lieutenant with seniority from the 1st August 1917 who was recorded on the establishment of the Machine Gun Corps. (Column 1571g). https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/103563086

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

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All that suggests that the Household Battalion remained his parent unit, and that he was attached for duty to the MGC, where it seems he remained until the end of the war.  In such circumstances it’s not impossible that he never wore insignia of the Household Battalion, but was simply posted to the MGC almost as soon as he was commissioned, or at least after a very brief period.  It was that frenetic late 1917 into 1918 period when the infantry was undergoing constant tinkering and reorganisation, exacerbated by the reorganisation of Brigades from four to three battalions, the concomitant reorganisation of MGC from companies to battalions, and then the maelstrom of the March 1918 German Offensive thrown into the mix.  Drafts of men and officers were helter skelter being dispatched to France and Flanders as fast as they could be organised.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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All I can say is thank you so much!! @PRC Peter, that’s him. That’s Alfred! I know because of the address - Marlborough Road. @museumtom  I’m lost for words, I’ve never seen a photo of Alfred, no one seems to have had one of him. That’s definitely Alfred as Paul Peter Duffy was his father.  I can’t thank you enough! @ATNOMIS thank you for the image of the record card and @FROGSMILE thank you for your insight. 
I cannot believe the amount of information that’s you have all found and supplied! Thanks a million!!

Danielle

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As mentioned by Peter, and not knowing whether you have seen it his medal card courtesy of Fold3 via Ancestry

image.png.080193f7ecd144ec4464dd3358c06765.png

 

 

George

 

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Because of the changes in his name he is difficult to track

 

1. I cannot find him in Irish GRO for an 1893 birth. So it may have been registered differently. I was curious to find his birth name

 

2. 1901 census is as Alfred Duffy. It is interesting that he was the child of a "mixed marriage"

1901duddey.jpg.8f8a0a3efd2417a19953b9f38604545b.jpg

 

 

3. 1911 census is as Alfred Duffy

1911duffey.jpg.8735e1fa17e2148ebfe430b109fc2466.jpg

 

4. He got the "Boy Clerk" appointment as "Alfred Hesperus Duffy" (in LG)

5. 1917 his commission is as "Alfred Hesperus Duffey"

6. He married in 1926 as "Alfred Hesperus Duffey"

1926marriage.jpg.408623cfe25fbaf062329b7298b36aed.jpg

 

I cannot find a death in Ireland.

 

It is odd that there appears to be no mention of him in Irish newspapers. He seems to have kept a low profile

 

Can @Elleinad84tell us what happened to him after the war ? I always like to know the story of a life.

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@Elleinad84

 

The "Comm 31-7-17" isn't an error - he was discharged from his (other ranks) enlistment on the 31st July 1917 in order to take up his commission on the 1st August 1917. The note on the Medal Index Card is just a very short hand way of saying that :)

 

Cheers,

Peter

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@corisandeDoes “mixed marriage” in this context mean the offspring of a RC and Protestant marriage?

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@corisande I've attached Alfred's birth in 1893. There was no name registered at birth hence why you couldn't find him. :)

Alfred indeed kept a low profile, very little is known about his life but I do know he spent the rest of his life in Dublin. His wife past away in 1946 and he didn't remarry and there doesn't seem to have been any children. He died on June 19 1974 and is buried in Deansgrange Cemetery in Dublin.

2098052173_AlfredDuffyBirth1893.jpg.557a4da51f9568a6044e4829ff344355.jpg

 

 

 

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You are not Irish are you :)

 

Yes, and in Ireland, over the years, such a marriage could cause problems for the couple. For example where they could live

 

there are other little things going on here, like his father’s degree was from Royal University Ireland (look it up), and he was a Professor at TCD (Trinity)

 

It is , to me anyway , a fascinating story of middle class life in Dublin

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@PRCThank you for clarifying that for me. I wouldn't have had a clue what that meant. 

@FROGSMILEHe was of "mixed marriage" his father was Catholic and his mother was Church of Ireland. 

 

Thank you all again, I can't wait to pass on all this information to his niece in Australia so she can tell her aunt ( Alfred's sister  who's 98 this year- daughter from father's second marriage) They have always wondered about his records. Alfred's father's brother was my 2x great grandfather.

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5 minutes ago, Elleinad84 said:

I've attached Alfred's birth in 1893. There was no name registered at birth hence why you couldn't find him.

 Thanks,. I did try with "unknown" which usually throws up such "no names". The Dublin Registrar or the Rotunda Authorites were sticklers. I don't think mothers were allowed out if the birth had not been registered at that point, and they registered it regardless as "Unknown" - another of those little snippets of Dublin. The Rotunda Hospital was Dublin's main maternity hospital

 

So we will never know when he added "Hesperus" - I would think his father had put it  as a middle name - he being a Classical Professor. Hesperus being the Evening Star in Greek, though there migh be a deeper significance with Alfred

 

I am unclear why he changed his name to Duffey from Duffy at birth

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@corisande What's also fascinating is Alfred's father's brother RJ O'Duffy ( my 2 x great grandfather) was a notable Irish scholar of the time (he was a member of The Society of The Preservation of the Irish Language and The Young Society of Ireland)  and started going by O'Duffy instead of Duffy. So who knows what his view on the marriage was but there doesn't seem to have been any contact between brother's in later years. 

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It is one of the many things that makes Irish history both interesting and challenging. Often families were divided, sometimes bitterly. And not just Irish/English or Catholic/Protestant, but also Pro-Treaty or Anti-Treaty

 

And as you say RJ started to use "O'Duffy" instead "Duffy". The equivelant change today would be to use, say "O Ruairc" instead of "O'Rorke". And these changes are a great help in seeing what is happening within a person's life, even though there may not be a lot else to go on

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@corisandeI've no idea why the name went from Duffy which it always was, to Duffey but from documents after 1920's onwards up until his death Alfred used the spelling Duffy. This can be seen in Tom's Directories and in the burial records of his wife and himself. His father went by the spelling of Duffy and all Alfred's sibling from his father's 2nd marriage was Duffy. I think you are right about Hesperus, it's most likely his father's input given his background.

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And (probably) my final point on Alfred, was that interestingly he carried on as a Civil Servant in the new Irish State

 

Not everyone could (or would) and many  like my grandfather, moved to Belfast for that reason

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It has been mentioned in one of the posts the Household Battalion did not have a Reserve Battalion.

 

From the research I have undertaken on the Household Battalion the Reserve Battalion was based initially at Wellington Barracks , Chelsea in October 1916 and subsequently moved to the Combermere Barracks , Windsor. 
 

in the book “The diary of a forgotten  Battalion “ by Gerald William Harvey he lists a nominal role of Officers who were  serving  with the Household Battalion in the “Field “ in France, on the 22 nd December 1917.

There is listed a 2 nd Lt. AH Duffey , no regiment is noted from where he was posted from.

 No other officers joined the Battalion in France after the 22  nd December 1917.

 

We know at this stage the Household Battalion was still in France, 

It  looks as if some of the information in the book is taken from the Battalion War Diary as it’s noted  on the 1 st October 1917 they had received 8 officers and and 281 other ranks as replacements .2nd Lt. A.H Duffey is mentioned as one of the replacement officers.

 

When the Household Battalion  was disbanded on the 10 th February 1918 as part of the reorganisation of the British Army large batches  of men were posted from the Household Battalion to Coldstream Guards , The Scots Guards, Welsh Guards, Irish Guards etc , as well as the Machine Gun Company. 

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Just checked the Household Battalion War Diares and 2 nd Lt A.H Duffey is mentioned on the 13 th January 1918 leading a bombing party with 1 NCO and 3 OR , returning without being fired upon and no casualties.

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On 02/05/2021 at 20:51, Toontraveller said:

Just checked the Household Battalion War Diares and 2 nd Lt A.H Duffey is mentioned on the 13 th January 1918 leading a bombing party with 1 NCO and 3 OR , returning without being fired upon and no casualties.

That’s fabulous that you’ve managed to find an entry proving that he spent some time with the Household Battalion.  Brilliant to bring his story to life! 
 

For Elleinad84:  the oval badge below is the one he would have worn in the trenches with this battalion.  The circular badge is that of the Household Officer Cadet battalion.  It seems possible, but yet to be confirmed that he might have completed his officer training there.  I’m quite intrigued as to how he might otherwise have ended up with the Household Battalion that ostensibly was formed from men and officers associated with the Household Cavalry.  I suspect it was the age old problem of supply not meeting demand.  The Guards were very (and are still) ‘of themselves’ and it would be relatively unusual for them to accept an outsider as an officer unless he had been trained by them, although that is purely my speculation.

1836F232-0B7F-459F-96C5-087AF3A51C9D.jpeg.dbc9568f033087dc38a9050dc32a2883.jpeg

E0DE2539-8EEC-44AB-A2C3-C97409CBDCF5.jpeg.594190e8bfe72a0991924cd6ae85efee.jpeg

 

 

 

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