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Remembered Today:

What period is the officers jacket came with breeches


arantxa
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Their is two holes above the cuff no Taylor’s info or anything 

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It’s a warrant officers, whipcord service dress jacket.  He appears to have been Indian Army Ordnance Corps and so probably a Conductor, or Sub Conductor (European on attachment as a specialist).  The two holes in his sleeve were so that his brass badge of rank and appointment could be removed and cleaned and the two holes in the shoulder straps for shoulder titles.  I enclose an example of a Conductor’s rank badge circa its introduction in 1918-19.  

 

As a Conductor he was entitled to a batman (servant) who was responsible for the polishing to death of the buttons.  This is quite an interesting survival of such a relatively rare garment in terms of its apparent provenance.  I would date the jacket to the WW2 era based on the button and absence of overstitched waistband.

 

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Edited by FROGSMILE
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Hi

as always your a fountain of knowledge....Thank you

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10 hours ago, arantxa said:

Hi

as always your a fountain of knowledge....Thank you

I’m glad to help.  It’s a quite rare piece with added interest due to its Anglo-Indian connection that of course ended in 1947.  Conductors are some of the oldest types of warrant officer with a strong historical connection to India.  The lining is not of fine quality (which is as I would expect for a WO) and the jacket was very probably made by either an Army tailor, or a durzi in a regimental bazaar.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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  So aoart from that arm badge the shoulder titles would be IAC would there be a div patch

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13 hours ago, arantxa said:

 

  So aoart from that arm badge the shoulder titles would be IAC would there be a div patch

This is the title.  It wasn’t usual to wear a formation badge on service dress during the WW2 period.

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Edited by FROGSMILE
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It may be obvious but I was intrigued by the title Conductor so had a look around online but having done that I'm a little confused as to what they do/did? Is it a specific Ordinance Corp title? So are they, for want of a better description, a clerk with clout or, as I suspect, something a bit more involved, that I cannot work out?

 

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On 24/04/2021 at 08:11, super6 said:

It may be obvious but I was intrigued by the title Conductor so had a look around online but having done that I'm a little confused as to what they do/did? Is it a specific Ordinance Corp title? So are they, for want of a better description, a clerk with clout or, as I suspect, something a bit more involved, that I cannot work out?

 

Put simply they were specialist accountants of consumable stores and materiel, especially munitions and propellants (there was a strong historical connection with artillery), but also rations, and fuel.  They were also expert in the necessary storage methodology to preserve an ideal condition of said stores (ambient temperature, etc.).  Given that munitions especially are effectively burning monetary value in prodigious quantities you can perhaps imagine the importance afforded them by military administrative governance. In India they had also existed within the Honourable East India Company’s mercenary army for the same reason.  They were something like quantity surveyors but for war materiel.  That degree of responsibility gave them a quasi officer-like status and so they tended to sit in the upper branches of the warrant officer tree.  In the event of a British force being in headlong retreat they were also responsible for organising the destruction of stores dumps to deny them to the enemy.
 

NB.  Long associated with the old board of ordnance, for a short period they were also linked with the earlier version of the Army Service Corps and its predecessors, but yes primarily and enduringly embedded within the Army Ordnance Corps and its successors.  Their role today is more generic rather than specialist and is instead used as an exclusive upper echelon of WOI for prestige jobs within army logistics.  For example, there are some staff jobs at SO3 level that can be fulfilled by either, a captain, or a Conductor.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Thank you Frogsmile, much appreciated. When I first read Conductor my thoughts went to music but had an inkling that wasn't the correct trade. So glad I didn't phrase my question in this way :rolleyes:

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8 hours ago, super6 said:

Thank you Frogsmile, much appreciated. When I first read Conductor my thoughts went to music but had an inkling that wasn't the correct trade. So glad I didn't phrase my question in this way :rolleyes:

Yes it does seem an odd title for a rank to our modern perceptions.  I think it’s because it relates to an older style of English and use of the word, as in the sense of conducting a discrete activity, with specialised responsibility for its efficient delivery.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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