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help interpreting a pension war card


LESLEY H COOK

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69629403_francislhanchardpensionledgerindexcard..pdf

Hello, I am just a beginner to finding my heritage and have found my great grandfather's world war 1 pension ledger card from his time served in the British West Indies Regiment.

I am having some trouble interpreting this card and was hoping someone would be be able to help me or point me in the right direction for an index to cross reference the information to. 

Many thanks 

 

Lesley 

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Hi @LESLEY H COOK and welcome to the forum.

 

Hopefully one of the pension ledger experts will be along soon, but I suspect most of the references quoted are administrative ones, the meaning of which has long since been lost and none of the related documentation survives.

 

Hopefully you have picked up that 12169 is his service number with the British West Indies Regiment. What little other documentation I can see does not include his middle name.

Unfortunately like the vast majority of other ranks, his records appear to have been lost when German bombs hit the warehouse where they were being stored in WW2.

 

One of the surviving documents is his Medal Index Card - literally that, an index card created at the relevant records office early in 1919 to keep track of the issue of medals and related correspondence. This shows he only qualified for the Victory Medal and the British War Medal. This combination means he did not see service in a Theatre of War until on or after the 1st January 1916.

 

Unfortunately for you, according to our parent site, that means practically all the Battalions of the Regiment, so can't be used to establish which one he might have served. You may be interested in what it has to say about the Regiment. It also has links to other sources of information on the Regiment during the Great War.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/british-west-indies-regiment/

 

One of the other administrative documents associated with those two medals is the Regimental Service Medal Roll. The standard of completion of these varies enomously, but if the clerk completing them followed the instructions it should show all the units served with while serving overseas. They are only available on Ancestry.

 

If that does help you help to identify the actual Battalion(s) served with, then you might like to know that Battalion War Diaries for units serving in France & Flanders can currently be downloaded for free from the UK National Archive. You do need to sign in with an account, but even that can be set up as part of placing your first order - no financial details required!

It's unlikely to mention your great-grandfather by name but it will give you some idea of where they were and what they were up to.

 

The simplest way to locate them I find is to use the dedicated search page  - but unfortunately the whole Great War area of the archive appears to be offline at the moment so will send you a link later.

 

Unfortunately War Diaries for units while they were serving in Egypt and Palestine, (as the 1st and 2nd Battalion did), or Italy, (as the 8th, 9th, 10th and 11th Battalions did for part of the war), are not currently available on line.

 

I notice the card says P.T.O, (Please Turn Over) - have Fold3 not scanned the other side of the card? (Sorry - don't subscribe, so can't check).

 

Hope some of that helps,

Peter

 

 

Edited by PRC
Typo
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The medal roll shows him as 9th battalion BWIR

The longlongtrail says

 

9th Battalion
Served in France & Flanders and went to Italy in 1918.
War diary July – December 1917 (WO95/338)

However I can find the 8th with that ref but not the 9th. The LLT details are the same for 8th and 9th,

As to the card. The refs will either be all or mostly file refs. The docs will have long since been destroyed. The reverse of the card merely shows the records were archived in 1939.

I see on the web there are a few references to the 9th rebelling in Italy at the end of the war due to ill treatment. This took place at Taranto. 

 

The 9th according to wiki were formed 21/7/1917

All the CWGC deaths recorded as with the 9th are in France/Flanders. The first in late Aug 1917, The last in 1919. 

Clearly a subject requiring further research 

I am not sure we can be fully sure of much regarding his service. 

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Looking at 9th Battn men:

Pte Benjamin Clarke (Jamaica), 11946 9th Batt. sailed for UK 20/7/17. Arrived 12/8/17 and went to France on 13/8/17. His records are scarce and he is in Italy in early 1919 and returns to Jamaica in May 1919. 

Lemuel Griffiths 12164 follows same path to Uk and France. Joined 26/6/17 or 11/7/17 in Kingston. His record suggest France/Belgium until Nov 1918 then Italy until Feb 1919. 

Septimus Grant. Joins 3/7/17. Follows same path as above. Gap in records about Italy. Back to Jamaica May 1919

Felix Gayle - 12118 same pattern. Italy Nov 1918 - discharged May 1919

Eugene Higgs - 12235 - same

Henry Cunningham 11968 - same.

 

All the available evidence points to this pattern for 9th Batt with similar numbers:

1. Enlisted June/July 1917. Service counting from when they left Jamaica on 20/7/1917

2. Arrived in UK and immediately sailed for France. in Aug 1917. 

3. Stayed in France/Belgium until Nov 1918 and then moved to Italy.

4. Majority discharged around May 1919. 

 

So this may be a likely scenario for his service. Assuming medal roll is accurate and it is usually very reliable. Not proof of course. 

It is noticed that these gallant fellows were also given a colonial number eg. 11968 is 11610. 12164 is 12120, 

 

 

Edited by Mark1959
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Not a huge amount of additional information on the card - the 15927/OS/M and the MVW2661 are reference numbers for his pension claim. Admitted to pension on 10 Feb 1920

 

Craig

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2 hours ago, PRC said:

The simplest way to locate them I find is to use the dedicated search page  - but unfortunately the whole Great War area of the archive appears to be offline at the moment so will send you a link later.

 

This is the link:-

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/british-army-war-diaries-1914-1922/

 

However, as @Mark1959 says there is nothing readily coming up for the 9th Battalion. A more general search brings up several war diaries relating to unnumbered British West Indies Regiment units and depots, but judging from the periods they cover I strongly suspect these do not cover the 9th.

 

Most of the Battalions appear to be Line of Communications troops - so guarding depots, railway junctions, ports and the like. As such my understanding is that they didn't automatically have to maintain a War Diary, and so in this case they may have chosen not to.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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Hello again,

Please let me thank you all for your replies and the advice and information you have given me. I am pretty overwhelmed with this information and will follow the links and advice you have given me. 

I know his name was Francis Lee Hanchard and he married in Holburn London to my great grandmother in August 1919.

On their marriage certificate it states his residence to be Charterhouse Hospital, Charterhouse Square, so I am trying to research if this was an actual hospital and how long he may have resided there as i know he returned to Jamaica with his wife, between 1919 and 1921, however I am to find that part of the puzzle out.

Then again, some google searches of Charterhouse Hospital are coming up as a residency for people who "served our country well", so I feel this may take a little time to look into. 

I did find other documents for him serving in WW1 as I am sure you may have also in providing your vast knowledge to me. I thought I would share them with you if that is ok and give my thanks to you all once again. 

Lesley 

2104092857_FrancisHanchardServiceMedalAwardRoll.jpg.7239e9d54e66ed09340438ed85dd01b6.jpg

1581077741_FrancisHanchardWW1WarMedalsIndex.jpg.e1e8a91a25f89758c9611efeb929329a.jpg

 

 

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Hi Lesley,

 

Those are his Medal Index Card and the related service medal roll entry.

 

He will only have received a pension on grounds of disability, (temporary or permamnent) which may have been incurred as a result of wounds, injury while in service, or ill-health brought on or made worse by his service. Therefore his residence in the Charterhouse Hospital in London may make more sense.

 

Many Almhouses like the Charterhouse Hospital - hospitals designed for long-term care of the deserving poor and therefore more like a nursing home - volunteered some of their beds for use by the armed forces. General hospitals would have a network of such convalescent hospitals to which men could be moved once any immediate surgical \ medical intervention need had passed.

 

One possibility is that his future wife Mary Wood may have worked there - not necessarily as a nurse, but as a Laundress, Cook or the various other roles needed to keep a hospital functioning. Do you have an occupation for her stated on the marriage certificate?

 

Unfortunately you're not having much luck at the moment :) There is a large database of such employees on the British Red Cross site, but when I just checked it appears to be offline.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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Hi Peter, 

 

It is stated that she was a domestic servant.

I do know that she was also part of the Salvation Army and wonder if she was there to help.

Thank you for your time. I did contact the hospital, a while ago, however due to the pandemic and limited resources, I guess that my email will be attended to once services resume.

 

Many thanks 

 

Lesley 

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