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Remembered Today:

Heres a Couple of Tricky Fellows To Find


toofatfortakeoff

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Chum Edward Boyer Harding was a member of the London and South East Area of The Old Contemptibles' Association. He died on 3 August 1990.

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"I am pretty certain he was living in Uckfield Sussex"

Edward Boyer Harding died in a care home in Uckfield on 3/8/1990 (Probate). Aged 93. Born 8/8/1896 (Death Reg).

So points to Boyer and Basil being the same

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18 hours ago, Bordercollie said:

 

On 17/04/2021 at 11:18, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

He signed the letters as Edward Basil Harding, or were they on headed paper, or he says that his name is Edward Basil Harding?

Can you give the specifics?

 

    Hello, I think he wrote in long hand with E B HArding at the top.  The account matches Hardings very closely.  Sorry Im a bit sporadic as i work away too frequently

 

 

 

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Just now, toofatfortakeoff said:

 

As i recall with nearly all veterans that wrote to me, it was usually in longhand, so I believe now, I could have got the script wrong. 

I also got Uckfield wrong I think.  Having a look at the article, it says he lived at Heathfield, Sussex. He may have verbally told me Uckfield. They're not a million miles from each other anyway. 

2 hours ago, AndrewThornton said:

From The Daily Mail - 8 November 1987.

IMG_20210418_115502.jpg

Ah right mystery solved! The other DM article said it was Heathfield 

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I wondered where I got Monmouths, part of the brigade? Sorry for the confusion- he may have mentioned them in his article. He goes in some detail about the burial of the first Rifle Brigade fatality Jack Sanders. 

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4 hours ago, toofatfortakeoff said:

I wondered where I got Monmouths, part of the brigade?

 

Long, Long Trail has this for the 1/5th Battalion after arriving in France.

 

5 November 1914 : left the Division and landed at Le Havre.
17 November 1914 : came under command of 11th Brigade in 4th Division.
19 May 1915 : transferred to GHQ Troops and formed a composite unit with 1/12th and 1/13th Bns.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/london-regiment/

 

The 4th Division included the 1/2nd Battalion, the Monmouthshire Regiment at that time - but they were in the 12th Brigade.

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/4th-division/

 

4 hours ago, toofatfortakeoff said:

He goes in some detail about the burial of the first Rifle Brigade fatality Jack Sanders. 

 

Please don't mix up Rifle Brigade and the London Rifle Brigade - the latter was affiliated to the Royal Fusiliers.

 

London Regiment casualties are never the easiest to find by unit from the Commonwealth War Grave Commission website. But using Geoffs Search Engine and the unit as the London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade), the earliest casualties overseas for the 1/5th Battalion that I could find was:-

 

Rifleman JACK L. DUNNETT

Service Number:………. 81

Regiment & Unit:………London Regiment (London Rifle Brigade)

…………………………...........1st/5th Bn.

Date of Death:………….21 November 1914

Buried or commemorated at

Ploegsteert Memorial, Panel 10.

Belgium

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/872350/

So a Jack but not a Sanders, and unless his grave was subsequently lost, not a burial.

 

Is this another casualty of long hand writing !

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited by PRC
Incorrect info crossed through
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The London Rifle Brigade was not affiliated to The Royal Fusiliers, PRC. The London Regiment of the Territorial Force is not the same as The Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment). 

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looking at 1986 probate for Boyer's wife. They lived in Framfield Road, Buxted. So between Uckfield and Heathfield. That fits with the 1987 article.

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Sadly as Tom Sanders died on the 12th January 1915 I think he was the 18th person from the Battalion to die serving overseas. Might have been the first from his platoon or section but certainly not the first from the Battalion.

 

Do you agree that Edward Boyer Harding and Edward "Basil" Harding are one and the same - or do you think more needs to be done to firm it up.

If they are not then there appears to be a lot of co-incidences, but the information for Edward Basil Harding sourced from the letters so far seems to have been dodgy unless he is a completely different individual.

 

Regards,

Peter

 

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2 minutes ago, PRC said:

Do you agree that Edward Boyer Harding and Edward "Basil" Harding are one and the same

Apart from one occurrence in an electoral register in the 1920s, there is no reference anywhere in public records to an Edward Basil Harding.

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1939 census does not have an Edward Harding born 8 Aug 1896 but there is this man who was born 8 Dec 1896.
image.png.f9422f57310e7186ece2b7bd36f345f0.png


https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/17314256:61596?_phsrc=Sie85&_phstart=successSource&gsfn=edward&gsln=harding&ml_rpos=3&queryId=95710e5ef784516489346c05aec5aeeb

The marriage details confirm this man is Edward Boyer Harding.,
image.png.d972a450c69c58d6475aff20438a4a56.png
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/14756027:1623


Craig

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Although there is a crease over the relevant part of the 1939 Register, the month is almost certainly "Dec".

Looks like he earned his WW2 medals for being in the ARP, although he may have subsequently joined the Home Guard.

1004426936_EdwardBHarding1939RegistersourcedFindMyPast.jpg.fe00f7f57b554761d2ef4cf206861b8e.jpg

(Image courtesy FindMyPast).

 

Both the period of the birth registration for Edward Boyer Harding, (Q4 1896) and the date of birth given in the GRO index for deaths, 8th December 1896, would tie in with the details on the 1939 Register. There are two other Edwards whose births were registered in England & Wales in the right period for a December 1896 birth in England & Wales - Q4 1896 and Q1 1897 - but they are an Edward James and an Edward John.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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31 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

1939 census does not have an Edward Harding born 8 Aug 1896

I don't think that August was ever mentioned Craig.

His death registration  says December 8th 1896.

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I hope this information is further evidence that Chum Edward Boyer Harding wrote the letter. He was amongst the Chums of the London and South East Area of The Old Contemptibles' Association who attended a lunch with HM Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother (Royal Patron of the Association), held at the Royal Hospital Chelsea on 7 July 1988, and the list was reproduced in the Branch Newsletter No. 31 of August 1988.

IMG_20200312_085010.jpg.54af89fc2c3172d46f93a4c3cdcdb73b.jpg

 

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25 minutes ago, AndrewThornton said:

hope this information is further evidence that Chum Edward Boyer Harding wrote the letter.

There's no doubt.

I think most of us just want to know where the 'Basil' bit came from

 

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1 hour ago, PRC said:

Sadly as Tom Sanders died on the 12th January 1915 I think he was the 18th person from the Battalion to die serving overseas. Might have been the first from his platoon or section but certainly not the first from the Battalion.

 

 

In his book Gentlemen and Officers K W Mitchinson tells us that E B Harding was a bearer at Tom Sanders burial.  Mitchinson also gives some details of Tom Sanders's death and burial. 

"Sanders, of 11 Platoon, had been pumping in the trench when, in a moment of forgetfulness, he straightened his back at a point where the parapet was low; a sniper's bullet push one of his lungs through a gaping hole in his back.  His body was taken back through the wood to the cemetery and his puttees arranged beneath his body to allow him to be lowered into the grave. He was left outside on the ground during the freezing night and by the time of the ceremony next morning, 3 inches of half frozen water lay in the bottom of the grave."

Mitchinson attributes that account to Harding which suggests that Harding and Sanders were serving together.  Clearly it was seared in Harding's mind perhaps as his own first experience of witnessing a fatal casualty.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

There's no doubt.

I think most of us just want to know where the 'Basil' bit came from

 

If the signature on the original letter was scanned perhaps it will answer that question.

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2 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

I don't think that August was ever mentioned Craig.

His death registration  says December 8th 1896.

It was mentioned earlier in

Quote

 

"I am pretty certain he was living in Uckfield Sussex"

Edward Boyer Harding died in a care home in Uckfield on 3/8/1990 (Probate). Aged 93. Born 8/8/1896 (Death Reg).

So points to Boyer and Basil being the same

 

 

Craig

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13 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

Edward Boyer Harding died in a care home in Uckfield on 3/8/1990 (Probate). Aged 93. Born 8/8/1896 (Death Reg).

Ah right, then that is incorrect.

His death registration in August 1990 does state dob 8th December 1896.

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=7579&h=8177156&tid=&pid=&queryId=702bec060325483c187a86019a028753&usePUB=true&_phsrc=ZsW70&_phstart=successSource

45 minutes ago, AndrewThornton said:

If the signature on the original letter was scanned perhaps it will answer that question.

Yes, that's what I hoped would happen following one of  my earlier posts, that the OP would publish his source material to avoid any misunderstanding and wasted effort.

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 19/04/2021 at 12:04, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

There's no doubt.

I think most of us just want to know where the 'Basil' bit came from

 

Shaky longhand explained already in previous post, his was one of the more legible letters, it has to be said-thankfully, some got a son or daughter to type.  

Edited by toofatfortakeoff
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  • 1 month later...

Went to France 4.11.14 with original /5th Londons. My short bio of him

Harding  Edward Boyer 

9717      300175  A/Sgt      UK 1.05.15                  Wounded April 1915 Ypres; served 3/5 Bn. throughout rest of the war; (b.1896 Battersea; enlisted 26.2.14; ‘P’ Coy.; lived Ealing Common; emp: Sun Fire Assurance; rejoined LRB Feb. 1920 and from 1921 Pte. Calcutta Horse; died 1990 Uckfield Sussex);

 LRB Record Oct. 1927; extract from a letter from Harding ;

             ‘I had quite a shock on July 25 last, when my afternoon labours were disturbed by a peon with a card bearing the name ‘Mr. F G Hancocks’ with the magic letters ‘LRB’ pencilled below. To celebrate the occasion we had a little dinner at Firpo’s Restaurant on 28th at which there were present in addition to Hanco and myself, E F Menzies, B C Owers, R T Smith and also an old member recently discoverer here, E F Smith, who served in ‘E’ Company from early 1910 to early 1914, Regt. No. 9108; on the outbreak of war he went to the Middlesex and got a commission and served in Egypt, Indian and Mespot. The only other known LRB man in Calcutta, Chadbourne was unfortunately unable to attend. We had another little dinner party on the following Tuesday at Chang Wa’s in Chinatown, starting with the famous crab and asparagus soup, and carrying on mainly with prawns and oddments. The visitor left on 7th with a somewhat hobnailed liver grumbling about lack of exercise, and will have reached home safely by the time you get this, we hope.’

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Medals are 1914 Star and bar Aug-Nov 1914, War medal and victory; Defence medal and TFEM. Cap badge is post war LRB

Edited by chrrip
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