PB BUSH Posted 16 April , 2021 Share Posted 16 April , 2021 Hopefully someone out there can assist. I have been looking into the Naval history of Jacob Philip Beament and trying to find his medals. I have looked in the obvious places IWM, GM and The NA. I have found an entry in the ratings roll at the NA which shows his service medals, however, there are the initials DSM hand written above his name. NA can't explain it, I am hoping someone out there might have an insight in to the initials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 16 April , 2021 Share Posted 16 April , 2021 Distinguished Service Medal, a Naval Award up to 1933. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB BUSH Posted 16 April , 2021 Author Share Posted 16 April , 2021 Apologies, should have been clearer. Of course I know what the DSM stands for in medal terms, however, you will note the initials are over Jacobs name and not in the medals section. I am not aware that Jacob was awarded the DSM Medal so I looked in the NA gallantry awards role and he is not mentioned. There are numerous other instances where the initials DSM are either printed or hand written above the sailors names and they too are not mentioned in the NA gallantry awards role. So I must assume that these initials in this instance refer to something else, which is why I have put the mystery to this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 16 April , 2021 Share Posted 16 April , 2021 Sorry, then I cannot help. Several medal rolls I have seen have medal awards inserted as per your example. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB BUSH Posted 16 April , 2021 Author Share Posted 16 April , 2021 Thank you, You mention several medal rolls. I have only found National Archives. can you suggest any other places I should look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawryleslie Posted 16 April , 2021 Share Posted 16 April , 2021 (edited) On 16/04/2021 at 10:39, stiletto_33853 said: Distinguished Service Medal, a Naval Award up to 1933. Andy Not quite. The DSM was awarded to other ranks until 1993 under the review of British Honours when the DSC replaced the DSM for all ranks. There were many DSM awards in WW2, the Falklands Conflict and since. edit: Apologies......I misunderstood your comment. It looked like you were stating that the award had been discontinued in 1933. I believe you are saying it was only awarded to Naval Personnel up to 1933 when it was extended to other services which is correct. LL Edited 17 April , 2021 by Lawryleslie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 16 April , 2021 Share Posted 16 April , 2021 (edited) The DSM notation is ifor the rating above, AB George Jesse BEAMENT DSM, who was "awarded the Distinguished Service Medal for service in submarines in the Sea of Marmora" Edited 16 April , 2021 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB BUSH Posted 26 April , 2021 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2021 Disappointing, with so many thousands of members I thought there might have been someone out there who might have had an answer to this mystery! I will keep on searching. PB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 26 April , 2021 Admin Share Posted 26 April , 2021 I would say that Horatio2 has answered your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 Horatio2 is the librarian of RN Great War history - the rest of us will provide many answers, but he will provide the right one . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB BUSH Posted 26 April , 2021 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2021 Please read message trail 16th April to understand the question I am asking PB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 My own reading of the thread confirms to my satisfaction that horatio2 answered your query on April 16th. To avoid any further confusion, could you repeat any specific question you feel is unanswered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 PB - Even if you are still none the wiser, at least h2 has provided you with a sound explanation. I don’t see what mystery still remains. MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB BUSH Posted 26 April , 2021 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2021 Ok for the sake of clarity below is an extract from the National Archive Navy ratings role. I researched this document to find out which medals my grandfather was awarded during his service in the Royal Navy 1906 - 1920. It is clear he was awarded the three service medals, Star, Victory medal and the British war medal. I know that my grandfather was not awarded a Gallantry medal as I had already checked in the National Archive Navy Gallantry role. As you can see from the image that the initials DSM have been entered above my Grandfathers name, Jacob P Beament. I am simply asking what do the initials DSM mean in this instance as they do not stand for Distinguished Service Medal. I have checked all the reply's to my question and none have give an explanation for the initials. I hope this is clearer for all. Apologies if there has been any confusion. PB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 18 minutes ago, PB BUSH said: As you can see from the image that the initials DSM have been entered above my Grandfathers name, Jacob P Beament. I am simply asking what do the initials DSM mean in this instance as they do not stand for Distinguished Service Medal. They do. As horatio2 pointed out on April 16th: On 16/04/2021 at 13:41, horatio2 said: The DSM notation is ifor the rating above, AB George Jesse BEAMENT DSM, who was "awarded the Distinguished Service Medal for service in submarines in the Sea of Marmora" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 Think of it this way, instead of the initials ‘DSM’ being added above your GF’s name, consider the possibility that the initials have been added below the name of the man listed above (who was in fact awarded that medal). MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, KizmeRD said: Think of it this way, instead of the initials ‘DSM’ being added above your GF’s name, consider the possibility that the initials have been added below the name of the man listed above (who was in fact awarded that medal). Yea verily! And the remaining question is ............? Edited 26 April , 2021 by horatio2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB BUSH Posted 26 April , 2021 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2021 Hear what you say, however, why put it on the line of another mans information, why not put it on the line of the intended man. Surely that's why you have separate lines for each man!!!! PB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 Records are replete with wierd admin entries like this, That is why it is important to research records in detail and not (necessarily) accept them at face value. You have done just that and have discovered the unwelcome answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB BUSH Posted 26 April , 2021 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2021 I will now go back and look at the other 9 instances in the B's section of the role where these initials occur. I have already scanned the Gallantry role in these 9 other instances and none of the men have been awarded the DSM either. I will now check to see if KIZME RD's theory of the line above or below being the recipient of the DSM. PB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 It’s not my theory, it is exactly what h2 told you many posts ago, and it is entirely consistent with other similar poorly notated entries we have seen. DSM’s weren’t exactly commonplace, so not really surprising that nine other men didn’t have one too. MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 J.P.Beament's award of the D.S.M will have been published in the London Gazette (not the easiest publication to search) but it will be there somewhere Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 5 minutes ago, RaySearching said: J.P.Beament's award of the D.S.M will have been published in the London Gazette As peviously noted, he was not awarded the DSM, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 6 minutes ago, horatio2 said: As peviously noted, he was not awarded the DSM, Sorry' I was not paying attention Note to myself pay more attention to what I am reading and double check before posting Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 26 April , 2021 Share Posted 26 April , 2021 On 16/04/2021 at 22:41, horatio2 said: The DSM notation is ifor the rating above, AB George Jesse BEAMENT DSM, who was "awarded the Distinguished Service Medal for service in submarines in the Sea of Marmora" Just to redeem myself Confirmation from the London Gazette that the entry on the medal roll relates to George Jesse Beament as Horatio2's post Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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