Info on DCM & Russian medal

[weightmanrm]

I am researching a L/Cpl Allan Harden, killed in action with my gt uncle in the affair at Tandamuti, in the East African Campaign.

The CWGC web site records that Harden received the DCM and also the 'Russian Medal of St George'.

I am looking for more information on both of these:

Regarding the DCM, The London Gazette of 25th July 1916 records as follows:

"13359 Pte A. Harden, 25th Bn., R. Fus.

For conspicuous gallantry in going out under heavy fire and bringing in a wounded man of another unit."

Unfortunately the war diary of the 25th RF does not record any details of this action.

However, I have been informed as a possible lead that a Pte Harrison of the 25th was Mentioned in Despatches by Lt. Col. Ryall of the 2nd Kashmiri Rifles 'for the action on 24th June 1916'. It may be that there is also a record relating to Harden in this same diary, and that the 2nd KR were the 'other unit'.

So the first question is: Does anyone have access to the war diary of the 2nd Kashmiri rifles, or is anyone any expert on this battallion ? I would be grateful for any information.

Secondly, I understand that the gazette relating to the Russian Medal of St George does not record details of the action, only name and date. Where is the best place to find out about these medals ?. I assume that any action, (if it was in Russia) must have been pre-May 1915 when Harden is reported to have begun serving in the East African theatre.

Interested in any leads...... Richard

[Theo]

Can't help with the medals but will have a look to see if I can find any details of the action.

Theo

[HERITAGE PLUS]

For details of the Russian Medal see:

www.ku.edu/~kansite/ww_one/medals/russmedl/russia.html

[Jock Bruce]

Richard,

award of a Russian medal is no indication at all of service in Russia. I'm sure someone on here knows the exact answer, but I think the Brits were given a batch by the Russians and then handed them out according to some sort of system.

I've seen the same Russian medal awarded to a Seaforth Sgt who won the DCM in Mespot - in some cases there may be some linkage between winning a Brit award and getting a foreign award.

There are mouldering lists in the PRO which list foreign awards to Brits and, I think, vice-versa. I consulted them a couple of years ago. As I recall they were sorted by date and award, with no way of looking up individuals and no details of what the award was for. They are also the only thing I've ever consulted in the PRO under supervision - because of their poor condition. After an hour of fruitless searching I said 'Sod this for a game of soldiers' and went for a cup of tea.

Jock

[Terry_Reeves]

I can understand Jock's frustration and agree that the existence of a foriegn award is no indication of service in a particular theatre of war.

The following totals are taken from Statistics Of the Military Effort of the British Empire During the Great War:

Orders and Decorations conferred on the British Army by Allied and Associate Powers up until 15th May 1920 = 26,893.

British Orders and Decorations conferred on Allied Powers and Associates = 20, 974.

So far as the arrangements for which individual received what , I believe that this was a matter for each country.

Terry Reeves

[Guest stevebec]

Amoung my many Australian Camel Corps soldiers fighting in Egypt and Palestine I have awards from France, Serbia, Russia and Italy.

Most soldiers had been awarded another medal (MC, MM or DCM) but mostly for those men who received a MID.

I surpose the heads throught an act may have decerved a highter award then an MID, so to compensate the soldier they gave a foriegn award?

I do have a French General arriving at the Camel Corps Camp in September 1916 to award three Serbian Orders of the White Eagle 3rd class to Australian officers who had already recieved a MID for their actions the Battle at Romani.

S.B

[Raster Scanning]

The London Gazette dated 15 Feb 1917 has the following.

Russian Medal of St George 3rd Class

13559 Pte Allen (not Allan as the CWGC list him) Harden, Royal Fusiliers.

The entry can be seen at the link below

Gazette

Interestingly there is also another Royal Fusiliers recipient, 12904 Pte (L/Cpl) Charles Stevens. This may be a man from a different battalion, but you never know.

I have checked all the London volumes of the National Roll of the Great War, but A Harden is not mentioned.

Hope this helps.

John

[Raster Scanning]

Richard.

In addition to my above reply, there is a contact for the historian of this interesting unit on the page linked below.

He may be able to help you.

Frontiersmen

John

[weightmanrm]

Dear All,

Many thanks for your help which was useful, particularly the web link to the gazette.

I am aware of the 'Frontiersmen' and am in contact, but in this case, both with respect to DCM and the Russian medal, they have no records which help.

So, the research continues.......

Cheers...... Richard

[Jock Bruce]

Frank Richards in Old Soldiers Never Die mentions someone who -

'had won the DCM and Russian Order of St George, which always went with the DCM in the first part of the War.'

Jock