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Remembered Today:

Scottish Uniform Identification and dating


Blairgowrie 1st 8th

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On 12/04/2021 at 21:52, FROGSMILE said:

Hello Ron.  All very useful as always.  Do you think the cap badge in subject photo could be Black Watch, what do you see?  There’s always the possibility that he might be A&SH wearing a universal glengarry as Mike has suggested.  The latter regiment wouldn’t have liked it, but if a service battalion, and that was all that they could get then needs must....

 

 

I think the cap badge looks like it's Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders.  The flashes make me think he is as well, although that's by no means definitive.  Just surfing the internet, there are a number of photos of men of the Argylls in plain glengarries and who do not appear to have been pipers.  Here's one.....  

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20 minutes ago, Ron Abbott said:

 

 

I think the cap badge looks like it's Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders.  The flashes make me think he is as well, although that's by no means definitive.  Just surfing the internet, there are a number of photos of men of the Argylls in plain glengarries and who do not appear to have been pipers.  Here's one.....  

Thank you Ron, that’s brilliant and now that you’ve been able to check the pipers roll, as I’d hoped you would, I think that we can confirm for the OP that Mike’s @gordon92suggestion is most probably correct and the subject photo shows an A&SH private in the universal glengarry issued for a time as a stop gap to meet demand.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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3 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

 

 

I think the cap badge looks like it's Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders.  The flashes make me think he is as well, although that's by no means definitive.  Just surfing the internet, there are a number of photos of men of the Argylls in plain glengarries and who do not appear to have been pipers.  Here's one.....  

A&SH.jpg

The presence of the wound stripe makes this an interesting photo to me.  Since the wound stripe was authorized in July 1916, this dates the photo to no earlier than that date.  So, it appears that the continued use of the simplified glengarry continued longer than I would have imagined.

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4 minutes ago, gordon92 said:

The presence of the wound stripe makes this an interesting photo to me.  Since the wound stripe was authorized in July 1916, this dates the photo to no earlier than that date.  So, it appears that the continued use of the simplified glengarry continued longer than I would have imagined.

Yes that’s a very good point Mike given that they were ostensibly supposed to be temporary.  I wonder when supply of the correct version returned to normality.   It would have been important to the regiment.  You can imagine the fuss among the Black Watch if no red hackles were available, although the difference in procurement is of course much greater.  Intriguing nonetheless.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes that’s a very good point Mike given that they were ostensibly supposed to be temporary.  I wonder when supply of the correct version returned to normality.   It would have been important to the regiment.  You can imagine the fuss among the black watch of no red hackles were available, although the difference in procurement is of course much greater.  Intriguing nonetheless.

The red-white dicing was indeed important to the regiment, a point you also made earlier.  This is amplified by an anecdote related to me by David Murray from his father, James Murray, whose service began prior to the Great War when full dress was still in effect.  David's father told him that when a Highland battalion returned from overseas service they were issued with the feather bonnets left behind by the last battalion departing regardless of the number of foxtails.  (Much of the time, but not always, it was the other battalion of the same regiment.)  The exception was the A&SH where it was always assured that the home battalion had the proper red-white diced feather bonnets.

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On 13/04/2021 at 02:23, gordon92 said:

The red-white dicing was indeed important to the regiment, a point you also made earlier.  This is amplified by an anecdote related to me by David Murray from his father, James Murray, whose service began prior to the Great War when full dress was still in effect.  David's father told him that when a Highland battalion returned from overseas service they were issued with the feather bonnets left behind by the last battalion departing regardless of the number of foxtails.  (Much of the time, but not always, it was the other battalion of the same regiment.)  The exception was the A&SH where it was always assured that the home battalion had the proper red-white diced feather bonnets.

Yes it was hugely important to them which is why I was just as surprised as you that the universal glengarry was still foisted on some battalions in 1916, but such indignities were oft the lot of the war raised Service Battalions.

 

 

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On 12/04/2021 at 12:28, Ron Abbott said:

With regard to previous mention that he may have been a Piper in the Argylls due to the plain glengarry, there is no record of a David Carstairs in 'The Pipes of War' nor any other publication that I have checked.  Likewise, no mention of any Piper David (or D) Carstairs in the newspapers from that era.

 

There were two pipers with the surname.  One was Corporal-Piper 8423 James Carstairs of the 1st Bn. Scots Guards and the other was Piper 1163 John Carstairs of the 1/5th Bn. Black Watch.  I believe the latter may be the man of the same name who went on to become Assistant Chief Constable and Pipe-Major of the City of Dundee Police in the 1930s.  

Hi Ron, The Assistant Chief Constable and Pipe Major of the Dundee Police Pipe Band was Piper 11158 John Carstairs Scots Guards and not in Pipes of War. Incidentally 1163 James Carstairs of the 1/5th Black Watch was transferred in to the RFC in August 1916 and the RAF in April 1918

Best Wishes

Jimmy

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7 hours ago, jimmy4174 said:

Hi Ron, The Assistant Chief Constable and Pipe Major of the Dundee Police Pipe Band was Piper 11158 John Carstairs Scots Guards and not in Pipes of War. Incidentally 1163 James Carstairs of the 1/5th Black Watch was transferred in to the RFC in August 1916 and the RAF in April 1918

Best Wishes

Jimmy

My bad Jimmy, I thought they were one and the same!  Thanks/Ron

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