New Addition ~ S98 nA Navy ~ a Real Sleeper!

[ersatz]

I picked this up hoping it was what I expected.......and it was.  My first Naval 1898 made by Simson & Co., 06.  Guard is marked V.II. M.A.III.  (of course the II is Xed out).  Spine of blade is marked with M for Marine issue.  I read it as 5th Naval Artillery Division, Weapon Nr. 111.  If anyone has a more appropriate designation, I'd appreciate setting me straight.  

 

I believe the M.A. is interpreted as Matrosen-Artillerie-Ableilung.  

[Steve1871]

Sorry I missed your post, sometimes we get buisy and miss a few days, a post slips by.

 

German Navy in WW 1 was a real mix up when it came to Rifles and bayonets. At the start of war, the Navy still had S.71 Hirschfanger Bayonets, The Army basically took over the new Gew.98 rifles, ( most anyway) so the Navy reverted with limited G 88’s I think, even small batch of M71/84 rifles in some Naval artillery yards, schools. The Hirschfanger was brought back, the S71/84 short bayonet was used briefly but the Hirschfanger came again. I think ( not sure) the Navy started getting the Gew. 98 in 1917. There was not too much demand to arm the Navy soldiers on ship or naval yards, so your S.98 Naval marked I think would be a rare site indeed. About half of my Hirschfangers are Naval, but I have no naval S.98 bayonets 

 

A few more photos would be nice, thanks for sharing

Edited 15 June , 2021 by Steve1871

[AndyBsk]

Nice bayonet, it could be the unit is war period? or switched from III. to V. Matrosen Artillerie Abteilung? or the designation is other.

http://www.denkmalprojekt.org/2016/kaiserliche-marine_matrosen-artillerie-abteilungen.html

Edited 15 June , 2021 by AndyBsk

[AOK4]

4 hours ago, Steve1871 said:

Sorry I missed your post, sometimes we get buisy and miss a few days, a post slips by.

 

German Navy in WW 1 was a real mix up when it came to Rifles and bayonets. At the start of war, the Navy still had S.71 Hirschfanger Bayonets, The Army basically took over the new Gew.98 rifles, ( most anyway) so the Navy reverted with limited G 88’s I think, even small batch of M71/84 rifles in some Naval artillery yards, schools. The Hirschfanger was brought back, the S71/84 short bayonet was used briefly but the Hirschfanger came again. I think ( not sure) the Navy started getting the Gew. 98 in 1917. There was not too much demand to arm the Navy soldiers on ship or naval yards, so your S.98 Naval marked I think would be a rare site indeed. About half of my Hirschfangers are Naval, but I have no naval S.98 bayonets 

 

A few more photos would be nice, thanks for sharing

 

I think you forget the Marine-Infanterie-Regimenter and Matrosen-Regimenter completely? At least the MIRs would have been armed with Gewehr 98 throughout the war. The MatrRs were more used in defensive roles so they may have only received G98s later in the war.

 

Jan

[ersatz]

Hello Steve, Andy, and Jan!  I hope you're all doing well.  Many thanks for your valued information and input.  I have attached addtional photos as requested and hope they are sufficient.  If not, please let me know.  The S98 has some moderate blade sharpening, however, I feel the overall blade condition is secondary to its rarity.   What are your thoughts? ? ?

 

 

 

 

[dman]

The German Navy had a scale of the number of small arms to be carried by each type of ship   They ranged from small number of pistols  on U Boat or Torpedo boats (small destroyers)  up to 400 rifles on Battleships 

 

The small arms were used to arm guard details,  boarding parties and on foreign stations , landing parties to handle revolts by local natives 

 

The navy's smal arms were requisitioned by the German Army,  (Gew 98) and replaced by Gew 71 or Gew 71/84.  Later captured Russian 1891 Moisin Nagants were 

issued to the Navy 

[AOK4]

5 hours ago, dman said:

The German Navy had a scale of the number of small arms to be carried by each type of ship   They ranged from small number of pistols  on U Boat or Torpedo boats (small destroyers)  up to 400 rifles on Battleships 

 

The small arms were used to arm guard details,  boarding parties and on foreign stations , landing parties to handle revolts by local natives 

 

The navy's smal arms were requisitioned by the German Army,  (Gew 98) and replaced by Gew 71 or Gew 71/84.  Later captured Russian 1891 Moisin Nagants were 

issued to the Navy 

 

Yes, but you all keep forgetting the naval infantry (3 infantry divisions by 1917!) which was still under the Navy's command and issued with Gew 98 (Marine-Infanterie-Regimenter) and probably for a part also Gew 88 (Matrosen-Regimenter?). I am unsure about the armament of the Matrosen-Regimenter, they may have been armed with Gew 98 as well.

 

And I've seen plenty of pics of the training units of the navy armed with Gew 98 as well.

[AndyBsk]

AOK is right as on first piece M marked and 06, it means the Navy had already 1905/6 time frame changed to Gew98 using, possible in war were some units equipped with older stuff, the last presented piece looks like little sharpened, it could be done by mobilisation hard to say is period or not? Navy Infantry should be used on various parts of war as normal infantry units.

[trajan]

Matrosen-Artillerie is correct for this one in the OP, but is more often abbreviated 'M.A.A.', for Matrosen-Artillerie-Abrteilung. I have never seen a marking for a Matrosen-Regiment - wouldn't these be marked 'M.D.' for Matrosen Division?

 

All or at least the majority of post-1901 navy bayonets, by the way, were supplied by Simson, many not date stamped, but those that are are 1906-1907.

[ersatz]

I neglected to mention that there is a # 204 stamped on the spine just behind the muzzle rest.  I take this to be a Rack #.  

[trajan]

Do you mean on the tang?

[ersatz]

On 18/06/2021 at 05:56, trajan said:

Do you mean on the tang?

YUP!  I suppose I had a senior moment..........................

[trajan]

Most of us have them!