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Question on interpreting dates on a Medal Index Card


James McAuley
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Could anyone please advise me if the dates recorded in the Medal Index Card below, Private Eugene McAuley, can be interpreted as he enlisted in 1914 till 1920 ? I have documents stating he was demobilized in March 1920.

Thank you very much for any advice.

James

Medal card of McAuley, Eugene Corps: Royal Dublin Fusiliers Regiment No: ...

Reference: WO 372/12/180547
Description:
Medal card of McAuley, Eugene
Corps Regiment No Rank
Royal Dublin Fusiliers 20733 Private
Royal Munster Fusiliers 18122 Private
Date: 1914-1920
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
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Hello James,

The WO 372 series of medal index cards is deemed to cover the period 1914 to 1920.

 

The card itself will detail his medal entitlement. If he arrived in a Theatre of War before 1916, this arrival date will be on the card. It appears that his service record did not survive the 1940 fire, so it is impossible to know from the transcription as to his whereabouts from 1914 to 1920. Analysing the service numbers could reveal when he joined both regiments.

Hope this is informative.

Thanks

Keith

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Thank you very much for the reply Kieth.

Can you advise of any sites I could use to try to analyze his service numbers ?

I had assumed Eugene enlisted during 1914.

With the 4 chevrons on his sleeve, I assume he had served four years abroad until 1920, though did not serve abroad pre1914 or 1915 as he was not awarded the 1914/1915 Star. He was entitled to the British War Medal & Victory Medals.

Thanks Kieth.

James

 

image.png.c8a55b5760318130d9c5078665c7961e.png

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If it helps the Medal Roll, referred to on the MIC, shows his battalions as "10 R. Dub. Fus. 20733" and then "2 R.Mun. Fus. 18122"

 

Edited by TullochArd
punctuation
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Thanks TullochArd.

I am a novice in this type of military research - I have been working on it for several weeks only but I find it fascinating.

The records that are available from WW1 particularly on the UK side are really fantastic given the time that has elapsed.

I will keep it going.

 

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Find My Past have 2 X POW records for him. I can't find him via ICRC  site, how they spelled his surname is anyone's guess. 

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org

 

FMP also have a June 1916 medical record for an admission to 2nd General Hospital, Le Havre. I can't access the original.

TEW

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TEW.

Thank you very much for your additional help in the research.

Eugene was indeed a PoW in Kassel as of March 1918.

image.png.c4f71b10d1db1b4634ad6dc1cce4c5d6.png

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I couldn't find him on the ICRC site either! The cards on FMP state that he was in 2nd Bn RMF and was made POW on 21/3/1918*. On one card it gives that date and "Ronsay", though in a very cursory glance I couldn't find a likely place of that name - the next men's entries in the same ledger give the same date and "Lansoy" and "Rosenoy" respectively, which suggests typos (they were Dublin Fusiliers, for what it's worth). On another, otherwise sparse, index card it gives the capital letter A after "2 MF", and I suspect this refers to his company. I don't know what the War Diary of the 2nd RMF is like for the very confused period of the Spring Offensive but it would be worth a look.

 

* caveat: the date of capture can be slightly out in the records for the first days of the Spring Offensive, I believe. 

 

Edit: on one card it says "Ronsoy" for place of capture.

Edited by Pat Atkins
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Judging by the url given by FMP for the POW records they must have got the records from ICRC?

TEW

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They're one and the same, yes; I had no idea (haven't had FMP long).

 

Incidentally, I think it's Ronssoy.

 

737128123_Screenshot2021-04-05at18_01_55.png.ab48e87204f13a433b025271907b5610.png

 

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Have had a look at the 2nd RMF War Diary, it includes a confidential report by an officer relating to 23rd March 1918 and "how the 2nd Munsters ceased to exist".  They were surrounded, it seems (haven't yet read much beyond the first paragraph of this, and noting of the WD itself). The author states that he lost contact with A Coy after it had counterattacked MALASSISE FARM, and he believes it must have been cut off (and wiped out) early on.

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25 minutes ago, Pat Atkins said:

I couldn't find him on the ICRC site either! The cards on FMP state that he was in 2nd Bn RMF and was made POW on 21/3/1918*. On one card it gives that date and "Ronsay", though in a very cursory glance I couldn't find a likely place of that name - the next men's entries in the same ledger give the same date and "Lansoy" and "Rosenoy" respectively, which suggests typos (they were Dublin Fusiliers, for what it's worth). On another, otherwise sparse, index card it gives the capital letter A after "2 MF", and I suspect this refers to his company. I don't know what the War Diary of the 2nd RMF is like for the very confused period of the Spring Offensive but it would be worth a look.

 

* caveat: the date of capture can be slightly out in the records for the first days of the Spring Offensive, I believe. 

 

Edit: on one card it says "Ronsoy" for place of capture.

Very Much appreciate the help Pat.

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Pat / TEW Kieth & TullochArd.

 

Thank you very much indeed.

There should be an additional medal considered for people like yourselves for the assistance you provide.

It is humbling that you can assist me in this. Thank you.

 

Very very much appreciated.

 

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Seek and ye shall find on ICRC - As MacAuley / Macauley, Eugene 18122, 2 RM [Got him down as RM = Royal Marines!] - Captured Ronsay 21.3.18 [though I note the discussion on spelling above]  Born 22.5.94, Donegal.  NoK Hannah Macauley, Dovey Littermacawad Donegal

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/1212949/3/2

Same document but as RM = Royal Munster

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/4982462/3/2

:-) M

Edited by Matlock1418
addition
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13 minutes ago, johnboy said:

Was he awarded a 14or 14/15 star?

Thank you Johnboy.

Though I think Eugene was enlisted during 1914. I am pretty sure he did not receive the 14 or 14/14 Star.

 

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1 minute ago, James McAuley said:

Matlock.

James, Have expanded my post above from the ICRC record - though obviously you can also read it for yourself

:-) M

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11 minutes ago, James McAuley said:

Thank you Johnboy.

Though I think Eugene was enlisted during 1914. I am pretty sure he did not receive the 14 or 14/14 Star.

 

|His MIC would give date of entry into theatre of war  If eligible for a star.

If you are right in his enlistment year I would have thought rightly or wrongly he would have served overseas sometime in 1915 at the latest.

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4 minutes ago, johnboy said:

|His MIC would give date of entry into theatre of war  If eligible for a star.

If you are right in his enlistment year I would have thought rightly or wrongly he would have served overseas sometime in 1915 at the latest.

Thank you very much Johnboy.

I am still uncertain as to when Eugene went to France.... Another ore learned GWF member had mentioned there was a June 1916 medical record for his admission to 2nd General Hospital, Le Havre.

I had assumed that as Eugene did not have a Star medal then he could not have been in France pre- January 1916.  I need to do more research work on this.

Very interesting to follow  and I must say the the response has been fantastic and appreciated. It has really changed my way of thinking a bit

.

James

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I think you have to look at his MIC and its reverse to see if an address of nok is shown. If it ties in with what you know it would confirm you have the right man.

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  • Admin
7 minutes ago, James McAuley said:

Another ore learned GWF member had mentioned there was a June 1916 medical record for his admission to 2nd General Hospital, Le Havre.

 

I think that is mistaken - that record is for a certain 18122 R W McCauley of the Royal Irish Rifles.

 

Regards

 

Russ

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Just now, RussT said:

I think that is mistaken - that record is for a certain 18122 R W McCauley of the Royal Irish Rifles.

Regards

Russ

Thank you very much for the update Russ. I was thinking Eugene was not in France till August 2016 but I was not sure....

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The transcript  shown in OP gives royal Dublin Fusiliers and Royal Munster Fusiliers. I interpret tha as Enlisting with RDF and transferred To RMF

This transfer could have taken place at IBD France

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Well, the Medal Roll for him shows we was firstly with the 10/RDF when he went to France.

 

That unit landed in France August 1916, so I would conclude he was not in France before then.

 

Searching for him on other rolls comes up blank.

 

Regards

 

Russ

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