Researching Potential Family Members

[MDPMicahDominicParsons]

Hello everyone,

 

I really hope that you are all well, I have been researchig potential family member that may have served during The First World War and I was wondering if anyone could give me any further tips and advice for

 

I am specifically researching the following people:

 

Blackburn:

John Thomas Bates - born in 1879.

Albert Bates - born in 1881.

Arthur Bates - born in 1890 and died in 1920.

Edwin Bates - born in 1893.

 

The above individuals were children of William Bates (1845 - 1902) and Ellen Bates (1851 - 1912). I also believe that Arthur Bates had tried to join the army pre war but his mother had gone to the depot to say that he was under age. There are also Luke Bates (1873 - 1943) and William Bates (1875 - 1949) who may also have served but I believe that they didn't. There was a family story that some of the brothers had served in the Navy but my research these past few years has proved fruitless. My Grandad only had information which he was told which has in some cases turned out to be inaccurate but I really hope to find out a little more about this side of the family.

 

Coventry:
Edwin Arthur Parsons - born around 1887.

James Parsons - born in 1891.

 

The above individuals were children of George Parsons and Catherine Parsons. There is really not much information about this side of the family.

 

Any tips for finsing out if these individuals served during The First World War would be very much appreciated. I have created a link to my family tree which may help with more details of these individuals - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/pt/RSVP.aspx?dat=MTU5ODEwMTE4OzswNzA4NjU0MC0wMDA2LTAwMDAtMDAwMC0wMDAwMDAwMDAwMDA7MjAyMTA0MDMwNTEzMDg7MQ==&mac=nwrKp1SAVfn/Ctz315JS1Q==.

 

Thank you so much for all your help.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Micah Dominic Parsons

 

[alf mcm]

Micah,

  According to Freebmd Edwin Arthur Parsons was born in Rugby in early 1883. This should help locate the family in the 1891 census.

 

Regards,

Alf McM

 

Edit - wrong year, should be 1888

Edited 3 April , 2021 by alf mcm

[MDPMicahDominicParsons]

Hello Alf,

 

I think I have located him on the 1891 census althought trying to locate if he went into The British Army during The First World War is another matter!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Micah Dominic Parsons

[PRC]

4 hours ago, MicahDominicParsons said:

I have been researchig potential family member that may have served during The First World War and I was wondering if anyone could give me any further tips and advice for

 

All of them are of an age where they were either married or likely to be married during the period when they might have served. The relevant marriage certificate under grooms occupation should hopefully show rank and regiment \ corps \ service. Sometimes it's less, ("Soldier") and sometimes it's much more. Similarly with the birth certifcates for any children born during that period under the fathers' occupation. Sadly even death certificates may add some insight if they are the individuals who notified the death.

 

They are also of an age that all of them would have qualified for the vote following the 1918 Representation of the People Act voting reform. So finding them on either the Absent Voters Lists for 1918 & 1919 should show service number and unit, or finding them on the main register, in conjunction with any evidence from the certificates listed above, may provide evidence that there is no significant length of time between August 1914 and the start of 1920 when they were absent from home and therefore most likely in the armed forces.

Also consider gaps between children as a possible indicator they were serving in a Theatre of War where home visits weren't possible, or that they were prisoners of war.

 

On that note also considering having a look at the ICRC website. Other than the first year, reports received by the Red Cross from the relevant combatant nations - Germany, Austria, Turkey and Bulgaria, often contain date of birth, home town, name and address of next of kin.

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/

 

Newspapers for the period. Ones from the first six months frequently give details including lists with addresses of men who had been recalled to the colours \ had volunteered. All the way through their may be reports in all kinds of contexts - not just wounding or death. Casualty reports from mid-1916 onwards included a place name - this was the (postal) town for the next of kin. Depending on the locality applications to the local tribunal for exemption may name the individual or provide enough detail to have a very good guess who they are. Best place to start is the British Newspaper Archive, which I know can be accessed also through the likes of FindMyPast with the appropriate level of subscription and I've no doubt there is a similar arrangement with Ancestry. I'd normally suggest going to look at the BNA at your local library, but unfortunately that's still likely to be a non-starter for the forseeable future. Many local library services have arranged for home access to some of the services they subscribe to, so could be worthwhile having a look at their website to see whats on offer. The BNA source is not ideal - the software used to transcribe the images into text is atrocious - but at least it is searchable. You could go to the relevant County Archives but there will be no index and it will be a question of scrolling through thousands of microfilmed pages with no guarantee that there is even anything to find - been there, done that,

 

With sources like newspapers it also good to ensure you have the most up-to-date pre-war information

What address does it give for them on the 1911 Census. What's the occupation shown.

If they subsequently married, what is the address given by bride and groom for where they were living prior to marriage.

Who lived there on the 1911 Census - was it family?

Whats the Grooms occupation - is it likely to mean he might be exempt from conscription if he didn't volunteer.

Were children born after the census. Most were born at home, so address of place of birth which is shown on the certificate, or address of informant will give you two shots at picking up a home address. With wartime inflation hitting rents particularly hard, especially in industrial towns like Blackburn and Coventry, don't be surprised to find wives might have gone back to live with their familys or moved in with their in-laws - particularly if their husband was already serving at the time of marriage.

If they were likely to be the male head of the household and aged over 24, then they had the vote - parliamentary, local\county council and civil parish. Last electoral register was 1915 - does it exist for the area where they were living.

 

However when checking newspapers don't get too fixated on just where they might be living - also think about family that might have moved away, in-laws and grand-parents (from both sides). The number of articles I've seen over the years headlined that a mother or father has "X" sons in the colours \ serving their country, only to find one or two son-in-laws have been included in the mix.

 

Finally, I take it they are all accounted for in the UK after the war? If not consider had they emigrated and so might have served for a country of the British Empire, or the Americans.

 

Hope that helps

Peter

 

[Mark1959]

An Edwin Arthur Parsons married Ellen Smith on 25/9/15. Father George deceased. The address is in same street as the family with George and Catherine as parents in 1911. He is described as fitter. 28 yeas old. Marriage in Foleshill. Record on FMP.

1939 list says born 12/1/1887 or maybe 11th.

1911 census shows James Herbert aged 19. Both he and Edwin are employed in “motor works”. 1939 shows born 12/4/1991.

cannot link to any soldier to date. 

Edited 3 April , 2021 by Mark1959

[PRC]

I’m seeing the following children born with the surname Bates, mothers’ maiden name Little, during the period in question, and all were in the Blackburn area.

 

Q1 1881 Albert

Q4 1887 Frederick

Q1 1890 Arthur

Q3 1893 Edwin.

 

The 1901 Census of England & Wales also shows Luke, (27, born Blackburn) and John T., (22, born Radcliffe, Lancashire). Frederick and Arthur, (not on the 1911 Census), were then aged 13 and 11 respectively, both born Blackburn. The family, headed by father William, (55), were recorded at 56 Peter Street, Blackburn.

 

The 1911 Census of England & Wales shows the widow Ellen Bates as the head of the household at 56 Peter Street, Blackburn, and living with her was her unmarried sons:-

Luke Bates….aged 37….born Blackburn… Assistant Secretary Weaver Union

John Thomas Bates..aged 32…born Blackburn…Stoker Cotton Mill

Albert Bates…aged 30…born Blackburn…Drawer in, Cotton Mill

Annie Bates….aged 27…born Blackburn…Weaver, Cotton Mill

Edwin Bates…aged 19…born Blackburn…Packer, Cotton Mill

 

Possible marriage of an Albert Bates to a Margaret A. Ashton in the Blackburn District, Q2 1912. Likely children of that couple – registered in the Blackburn District with Mothers’ maiden name Ashton.

Q2 1913 Helen

Q2 1915 Albert Bates

Possibly died 1937 in the Burnley District, (no obvious probate) but there are many possibilities in England & Wales post 1911. No obvious candidate on the 1939 Register.

 

A 23 year old married Royal Navy Stoker 1st Class Arthur Bates, born Blackburn, was recorded on the night of the 1911 Census of England & Wales aboard HMS Diadem. There is no likely age match for this Arthur from Blackburn on the 1891 and 1901 Censuses – I suspect your Arthur lied about his age in order to join up in 1906. His official number was SS103379 and his date of birth was given as the 23rd January 1888. He was transferred to the Royal Fleet Reserve in July 1911. He was still liable for 7 years in the Reserves, but strangely there is no reference on his Statement of Seaman Services to him being mobilised and serving in the Great War.

No obvious match on the 1939 Register.

 

Edwin Bates. No obvious marriage in the Blackburn Districts but others elsewhere in Lancashire in 1912 and 1922. No obvious match on the 1939 Register. No obvious death record in England & Wales.

 

You haven’t listed him so I take it you’re aware Frederick Bates enlisted in the Militia on the 5th January 1904 at Burnley. He gave the address where he was living as 56 Peter Street, Blackburn and he joined the 3rd (Volunteer) Battalion of the East Lancs Regiment. His next of kin was his mother Ellen of the same address. He did his initial 49 days training and then started to attend drill nights, but did not return after the 15th May 1904. He would go on to enlist in the King’s Liverpool Regiment using the alias Frank Taylor. Service number was 9037.

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/212854-soldiers-serving-under-an-alias/

The Regular Army Battalions of the Kings issued that service number between the 28th April 1904, (8774) and the 8th July 1905 (9316).

https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/07/kings-liverpool-regiment-1st-2nd.html

As he would have had to return his bounty plus pay for any equipment he could not account for to the East Lancs he probably had a big incentive to use an alias.

 

Luke, as I’m sure you are aware, was a significant trade unionist as well as Blackburn town councillor and post war the first Labour Mayor of Blackburn, (1929-31). There are newspaper reports on his activities throughout the war.

This is a mini-biography of him here which has him working at Brookhouse Mill where he became union representative. It is likely this was where his other siblings were working.

https://www.cottontown.org/Politics/Mayors/Pages/20th-Century.aspx

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Bates

Local groups, trade union archives and memoirs of Labour Party politicians of the era may mention him and incidentally reference other family members during the war.

 

While Luke is frequently praised for his diplomacy and moderation, advocating universal suffrage and equal pay, he seems to have brought the cotton mills of Blackburn grinding to a halt on at least two occasions. And glancing through the wartime newspaper reporting, the Labour group on the Town Council, of which he was said to be leader, lost one of its councillors , who then sat as an independent, over the anti-war stance taken by the local Labour party. The Great War Forum thread linked to above says that Luke acted as parent to his younger brothers, so if his sympathies were that way inclined, he may have helped his brothers not to be called up. (And that is pure speculation on my part).

 

Cheers,

Peter

[MDPMicahDominicParsons]

Hello everyone,

 

Wow, thank you so much for this information, I have spent so many hours trying to figure out the family story but have never quite put all the details like you have Peter. Thank you so much for your help!

 

It seems that the family were used to changing their ages, the family story was never that clear about this side of the family but it is good to finally get a little insight into who they were and the lives that they lived.

 

I am going to do some further digging to see what I can find.

 

Thank you so much for your help.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Micah Dominic Parsons