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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

John James S.W.B


huwrevans

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Can someone advise on where I should look to try and identify the soldier mentioned in the attached newspaper article?  i.e. which sites are the best that I should subscribe to, and which to avoid - I'm not asking anyone to look up for me, just point me in the right direction and avoid wasting my resources/money on bad sites.

 

I know his early service is outside the scope of this forum but I've never attempted this type of search before.  Usually I have a number or MIC to begin with.  But all I have to start with is this clipping. There are a number of MIC's I've looked at on Ancestry that may be him, but it's not the best search engine.

 

He's mentioned on local memorial (Crickhowell) but CWGC don't have him listed.  This may be because he had been discharged prior to dying and his death wasn't attributable to his military service. My main aim is to try and discover if he should be commemorated by the CWGC if his death was attributed to his military service - discharged due to being gassed perhaps?

 

Should I start looking at the SWB register - assuming he was discharged then he'd have been awarded one - wouldn't he?

TIA

John James SWB.png

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Hi Huw,

It does look as though he isn't commemorated by CWGC, and it's more than  likely that his cause of death was deemed unrelated to the cause of his discharge, but you're right, he could have been forgotten.

The first step is to positively identify him, name address, service number etc.

I bet there were very many John Jameses in the South Wales Borderers.

The exact condition causing his discharge  could be in service or pension records, and a Silver War Badge record might give his service number.

 

The exact cause of death will need to be established from a death certificate ( or his service/pension records).

The two need to match up, and if they do, then he would qualify.

I imagine getting the DC will be the easy part. 

Identifying his military service could be harder.

 

As you are in Wales, you can access Ancestry via the National Library of Wales website, but you will need to create an account and get an electric reader's ticket:

https://discover.library.wales/primo-explore/search?vid=44WHELF_NLW_NUI

 

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
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huwrevans,

The above posts are valid but I suggest the first step, once name is fairly certain and a few details to hand, is to ask CWGC if he has ever been previously put forward for commemoration.

And ask, if he has, for the outcome - reasons why not commemorated.

No point in spending time, and money for a DC, going over old ground without knowing what has already been uncovered/considered.

:-) M

 

Edit:

The pension record is handy but, on its own (and as only showing dates before his death), not that handy without knowing the reason he got a pension and comparing his medical condition/disability to his DC's cause of death - but as said, I'd be asking CWGC first.

 

As you wish to do this further on your own [and why not? - a good way to learn] = it is worth noting that James 14518 has a number of records on Ancestry and amongst those is a Medical Board report with details of why he was discharged with level of disability at that, and at a later, date.  Certainly a reason why he got a pension for a number of months after discharge.

Good luck.

:-) M

 

Edited by Matlock1418
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Thanks to everyone for their help, advice and support.

 

I'm struggling finding him on Ancestry - what am I doing wrong? 

 

I've found his MIC and the medal roll index pages but nothing else. 

 

Or is there a knack in running their search engine to come up with the right information?

 

Thanks again.

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17 minutes ago, huwrevans said:

Or is there a knack in running their search engine to come up with the right information?

Yes

Sometimes less is more.

In the military records section - try just:

Surname (in surname field)

and

Number (in keywords or number field)

That way you pick up initial(s) and forename(s) variants.

:-) M

 

Edit: I get seven hits using just 'James' and '14518' - the one you are probably really most looking for is "UK, British Army World War I Pension Records"

Edited by Matlock1418
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I must be doing something wrong then. 

 

Tried Search in Military, just using surname and his number in keyword and get 459195 results with 3722 of them in UK, British Army WW1 Pension Records.:blush:

 

I did eventually find his pension records but only by selecting keyword as exact! 

 

Any tips on how I access silver war badge information etc as it's not coming up.

 

Which other sites are worth investing in - Fold3 etc?

Edited by huwrevans
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6 hours ago, huwrevans said:

I did eventually find his pension records but only by selecting keyword as exact! 

 

Any tips on how I access silver war badge information etc as it's not coming up

Exactly [pun intended] how I did it

SWB roll is there on Ancestry for James [but the link opens up on page J.865 i.e. after James - so back up one page to page J.864 to get his details.  You can see J/864 on his MIC] - SWB transcriptions are on Find My Past

6 hours ago, huwrevans said:

Which other sites are worth investing in - Fold3 etc?

Fold3 is just Ancestry with a few extra tweaks

:-) M

Edited by Matlock1418
addition and explanation to find exact page in roll.
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SWB original rolls are on Ancestry, FMP have transcriptions.

 

Ancestry Military search with Surname and number and with Match all terms exactly gives me 8 results, 7 for the right man.

 

Ancestry is playing up for me at present, won't let me scroll through the pension files and just shut down on me.

 

One sheet says he attested in Devons another into SWB, both 7/9/14.

 

Wounded GSW chest in 1916 but back in action.

TEW

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3 minutes ago, TEW said:

Wounded GSW chest in 1916 but back in action.

This GSW got him discharged with a pension for 50%, reducing to 40%, disability.

:-) M

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Yes, sorry see that now, I'll blame Ancestry not letting me scroll through.

 

So, he was receiving a pension based on that wound. Another sheet has a post-death payment of 11/- in 1919?

 

I've not seen those stamps on Soldiers' Effects before Died After Discharge but not seeing others with same stamp on CWGC (those I tried).

TEW

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45 minutes ago, TEW said:

 

I've not seen those stamps on Soldiers' Effects before Died After Discharge but not seeing others with same stamp on CWGC (those I tried).


There are a lot of them, they are just lost amongst the other cases.

They cover situations where a man was discharged before the war gratuity could be paid, so most typically those discharged earlier in the war and who then died before 1919.

 

Craig

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Looks like he was SWB before WW1 too

 

Name: John James
Gender: Male
Marital status: Single
Age: 23
Birth Year: abt 1871
Birth Place: Crundo, Crickhowell, Brecknockshire, Wales
Enlistment Date: 28 Dec 1894
Enlistment Place: Brecon Wales
Regiment: 24th Foot (South Wales Borderers)
Service Number: 3/5538
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On 30/03/2021 at 14:40, TEW said:

Yes, sorry see that now, I'll blame Ancestry not letting me scroll through.

 

So, he was receiving a pension based on that wound. Another sheet has a post-death payment of 11/- in 1919?

 

I've not seen those stamps on Soldiers' Effects before Died After Discharge but not seeing others with same stamp on CWGC (those I tried).

TEW

I've got the pension sheets.  Please excuse my ignorance - where are the stamps 'died after discharge' you're referring to?

 

I've found the reference you were referring to. please ignore this post

Edited by huwrevans
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16 minutes ago, huwrevans said:

Looks like he was SWB before WW1 too

 

Name: John James
Gender: Male
Marital status: Single
Age: 23
Birth Year: abt 1871
Birth Place: Crundo, Crickhowell, Brecknockshire, Wales
Enlistment Date: 28 Dec 1894
Enlistment Place: Brecon Wales
Regiment: 24th Foot (South Wales Borderers)
Service Number: 3/5538

That links to the service records I posted in my first post.

 

Quote

I've got the pension sheets.  Please excuse my ignorance - where are the stamps 'died after discharge' you're referring to?

In the effects record - https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=Sie16&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=60506&cp=0&_F8007A65=14518&new=1&rank=1&uidh=784&redir=false&msT=1&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=7&h=553374&recoff=&ml_rpos=8&queryId=5613c0489bc301213fb05ef625443785


Craig

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On 29/03/2021 at 18:41, ss002d6252 said:

 

 

  

1 hour ago, huwrevans said:

Looks like he was SWB before WW1 too

 

Name: John James
Gender: Male
Marital status: Single
Age: 23
Birth Year: abt 1871
Birth Place: Crundo, Crickhowell, Brecknockshire, Wales
Enlistment Date: 28 Dec 1894
Enlistment Place: Brecon Wales
Regiment: 24th Foot (South Wales Borderers)
Service Number: 3/5538

 

 

Yes indeed, as per Craig's post on 29 March. Ancestry has the transcript of the WO 96 militia record, images of the record being available via FindMyPast or Fold3. (Archive reference WO 96/457)

The text recognition has not been validated against an actual place name, and it would appear he was born at Cwmdu.

 

 

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