14th btn Northumberland Fusiliers

[Don Regiano]

2 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Yes, I’m afraid I’ve got my wires crossed there Dom.  Bizarrely my eyes were seeing 6-digits rather than the actual 5 that were there.

 

No problem.  It just got me wondering at first as to whether I had misinterpreted the numbering system.  At least I can rest easy with my previous research now.

[Hannah West]

On 29/03/2021 at 10:27, FROGSMILE said:

Looking at his Labour Corps number 641817, the book No Labour no Battle (about the Labour Corps) shows that number as falling within the span 63601 - 64200, which relates to a Labour Corps unit originally formed from the 37th Battalion Royal Fusiliers.  This battalion had been one formed as an infantry Labour Battalion from men of lower medical grade who were then transferred en masse into the Labour Corps when it was formed in May 1917.  It confirms that they served overseas.  The book also states that a man whose number sits within the series between 622800 and 649400 joined the Labour Corps between July and September 1918.  You would need to factor in that he was gassed and so subsequently would have needed to receive treatment and recover for a period before that, but it does suggest that he spent the majority of his service with 14th Bn NF.  Reading between the lines I would speculate that he was probably gassed during the German Spring offensive in March 1918, when a great deal of gas shelling took place, and then after gassing was downgraded and subsequently sent to the Labour Corps as explained.  However, bear in mind that it’s not impossible that he might have been affected earlier, during actions in 1917, and then after a lengthier period of recovery followed the same course mentioned.

 

HI Frogsmile, I think we are saying that the first part of the above is null and void due to your squiffy eyes. But that it still makes sense from "The book also states..." Others on the thread agree with your speculation about the gassing in spring 1918. Where do you think my nana fits in, being conceived around Oct 1916 - does it seem likely to you that he was home on leave? And if he was recovering after Loos, would he not have been in a military hospital rather than at home? 

Many thanks

Hannah

[FROGSMILE]

27 minutes ago, Don Regiano said:

 

No problem.  It just got me wondering at first as to whether I had misinterpreted the numbering system.  At least I can rest easy with my previous research now.

No it was a classic case of eyes seeing what they wanted to see rather than what was there...

[Matlock1418]

12 minutes ago, Hannah West said:

if he was recovering after Loos, would he not have been in a military hospital rather than at home?

It might well have been the case of in a hospital at first, but later to home.

[A relative of mine got gassed and went down that route in mid-1915]

:-) M

[FROGSMILE]

58 minutes ago, Hannah West said:

 

HI Frogsmile, I think we are saying that the first part of the above is null and void due to your squiffy eyes. But that it still makes sense from "The book also states..." Others on the thread agree with your speculation about the gassing in spring 1918. Where do you think my nana fits in, being conceived around Oct 1916 - does it seem likely to you that he was home on leave? And if he was recovering after Loos, would he not have been in a military hospital rather than at home? 

Many thanks

Hannah

“Squiffy eyes” made me chuckle out loud as it’s more true than you realise, with astigmatism causing me some problems now.

In answer to your interesting questions, yes it does seem likely that your grandfather was on leave, or perhaps able to meet her when convalescing, as there’s nothing to suggest he was illegally absent from his unit and so we must assume he was home with permission.  
 

When a soldier was wounded he went through a series of stages towards recovery, that varied slightly according to the severity of the wound(s).  The start point for more serious wounds (after evacuation) was intensive treatment in a base/general hospital that relied more on the cleansing and continued sanitisation of wounds, changing of dressings and bed rest rather than any drug treatment.  Even penicillin had not been invented at that time, so much also rested on the body’s natural immune response.  
 

Once able to leave the bed and gain strength some physiotherapies might take place and at a certain stage release to a usually separate convalescent establishment.  From there I understand men went to ‘Command Depots’ (each regional command had one of these) to complete a final stage of a more military convalescence followed by a medical board assessing fitness to either, return to the line, or be downgraded to service more appropriate for a man’s reduced capabilities.  
 

At the end of this process there was usually a period of home leave before reporting back to a depot and thence back out to France and Flanders if deemed fit enough for overseas service.

Edited 5 April , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[battle of loos]

good morning,

 

I had opened some time ago a post on the 14th Northumberland Fusilier about the Pioneer C.A. MOULDS.

 

 

Kind regards

 

Michel

Edited 5 April , 2021 by battle of loos

[kenf48]

I'm not seeing him in the initial 'gas poisoning' Loos casualty list (M. Daley listed as kia 26.9.1915 SDGW). In fact I can't find him in any published casualty list, though they do not list men suffering from sickness.

 

This list published 18 October 1915 Sheffield Daily Telegraph show a number of those listed as 'killed'.  Whether or not the 'wounded' in the above list were also victims of gas or the shell that fell on them as they were withdrawing is unclear.

 

Images BNA at FMP

 

It may be, as family legend has it that Pte Whitehead suffered from gas poisoning at Loos but remained at duty, or was treated in France. You note he was suffering from 30% disability when discharged from the Army.  As the Labour Corps men were fitness category 'B', or even at home 'C' this would not exclude a transfer to the Labour Corps in 1918.  An assessment for pension purposes was financial, not fitness to serve as his transfer to Class Z shows.

[Hannah West]

Hi all, thank you for your thoughts, clarifications and research. There are lists - how exciting! Though Arthur does not feature. Thanks for checking the lists Kenf. My current favourite hypothesis is that Arthur was home on leave when nana was conceived and injured later - not being on the poisoned at Loos list. I suppose gas was used at all these battles? The likelihood is high that he was injured at Chemin des Dame - as many of his battalion were - and this ties in with his date of transfer to the Labour Corps being Jul - Sept 1918? Is that about right - as Frog mentions there is quite a process to go through before medical assessment to say where a soldier will go after recovery.  It seems likely he stayed in France after transfer to LC because he was fit enough to serve after discharge. My money's on that scenario - particularly as Ive just spoken to my dad and he now says he knows nothing about Arthur other than that he was gassed. Apparently he didn't say he wasn't there long, and I must have made that up. Sigh. Ah well, one of us is going senile. It's probably me. 

Ive had a look at the preview of the Pioneer Battalions book on Amazon and found it amusingly written so I'll defo give that one a read too. 

Many thanks all,

All further thoughts welcome  

Hannah