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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Refusing to take part in a firing squad


Sgt Stripes

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Mates,

 

Sorry but I can't see any problems here.

 

Since our Army never shot anyone, I am out of my depth here, but do you have to shoot the man and not aim off, of cause if all the squad do that then what can they do to you?

 

As many walls show, that many bullets missed there targets when doing this sad duty, there are many walls around the place that show this from all eras?

 

So I see that's how a soldier, when forced to do this duty, cooped with it, he just missed.

 

As many studys show that not all soldiers will shoot at the man, on the two way firing range (combat) , but in the area of the target

 

Of cause on a firing squad they don't have that problem, so you have to do it or not?

 

S.B

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I would think with a .303 at close range that a bullet mark on a wall does not mean the bullet missed the target.

TEW

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3 hours ago, TEW said:

I would think with a .303 at close range that a bullet mark on a wall does not mean the bullet missed the target.

TEW

Agreed.

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8 hours ago, TEW said:

I would think with a .303 at close range that a bullet mark on a wall does not mean the bullet missed the target.

Indeed. I’ve seen a WWII photograph of some Germans who were captured during the Battle of the Bulge whilst wearing US uniforms and were executed by firing squad as spies. The picture was taken at the moment of firing and you can see puffs of dust on the wall behind them. i.e. the bullets were still carrying a great deal of kinetic energy after passing through their bodies due to the very short range.

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2 hours ago, peregrinvs said:

Indeed. I’ve seen a WWII photograph of some Germans who were captured during the Battle of the Bulge whilst wearing US uniforms and were executed by firing squad as spies. The picture was taken at the moment of firing and you can see puffs of dust on the wall behind them. i.e. the bullets were still carrying a great deal of kinetic energy after passing through their bodies due to the very short range.

The wall (of a shed) was still there about ten years ago, and the bullet marks could still be seen. I don't know whether it is still there or has been knocked or fallen down. It is/ was just outside Bastogne.

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15 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Are there any documented examples of refuseniks being disciplined?

 

I do not recall any, it would simply be recorded as disobedience to orders as previously pointed out by Ron so would be difficult to identify.  That’s not to say it didn’t happen, but given the emotive nature of the topic I would have thought we’d have heard about it.   I’ve not read all the books mentioned in this thread, it’s not of particular interest except as a reflection of social and cultural attitudes in the period.  

 

All the accounts I have read seem to concentrate, like Bickersteth, on the aftermath and the trauma of the members of the firing party in having done the deed and killed someone who was in their army and who they may have known.  Knowing this it would not seem surprising if they tried to avoid participation but I fear in the end they would have little choice.

 

I’ve seen mentions in war diaries, but as in the example above the executions receive scant attention, if mentioned at all.

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I assume that the firing squad was a prescribed number of men.

How many?

 

Regards,

JMB

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21 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

I assume that the firing squad was a prescribed number of men.

How many?

 

Regards,

JMB

 

According to the Military Manual (1950) quoted in this blog it was ten.

https://josefjakobs.info/2014/09/british-procedure-for-military.html

 

in other (WW1) accounts the figure was nine.

 

Like everything concerning this topic there is much ambiguity.

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Ken,

 

Thanks for that link.

 

Regards,

JMB

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On 26/03/2021 at 22:44, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Are there any documented examples of refuseniks being disciplined?

So that's a 'No' then?

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3 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

So that's a 'No' then?

 

I think by now we should have learned ' never say never'  as far as the Great War is concerned

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On 26/03/2021 at 23:17, TEW said:

I would think with a .303 at close range that a bullet mark on a wall does not mean the bullet missed the target.

TEW

 

I believe the Bloody Sunday inquiry received evidence that one SLR round (not so different from a .303 Lee Enfield) went through (from memory) three people.

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A wall or a fence is no guarantee of a bullet stopping, flesh less so!  Even for sporting ammunition, the ricochet trace is a significant area and “depth”.  However the courtyard wall in Poperinghe was more than one course thick, and IIRC, augmented at the firing point with sand bags?

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We seem to have moved significantly away from the OP

It seems to me - The only significance of bullet marks on a wall is really if they were in a place that would indicate if any were so significantly off the mark as to suggest that a firing party member(s) had deliberately aimed wide/high/low as their way of following orders but 'not being responsible'.

:-) M

 

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4 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

It seems to me - The only significance of bullet marks on a wall is really if they were in a place that would indicate if any were so significantly off the mark as to suggest that a firing party member(s) had deliberately aimed wide/high/low as their way of following orders but 'not being responsible'.

:-) M

 

 

Or were exceedingly bad shots.

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Or shots from another conflict.

TEW

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  • 1 month later...
On 31/03/2021 at 06:57, ianjonesncl said:

 

Or were exceedingly bad shots.

 

The firing squad members would have been spread out in a line 20-25 feet long. All aiming at the same place, there would have been a spread of impacts behind the target depending how far away the target was from the wall. This can clearly be seen in videos of the executions of German Officers carried out in Italy in 1944.

 

Please see a rather crude sketch of what I'm on about.

DSCN7621.JPG.28c2182bdaeff276262a6707dee04901.JPG

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 30/03/2021 at 21:57, ianjonesncl said:

 

Or were exceedingly bad shots.

Hey!  They hit the wall?

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