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HMS Emperor of India


Stevejm

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I am researching the service history of a sailor, William Haddock, who served on the HMS Emperor of India on behalf of a friend who is related to him and wondered if anyone can help me to interpret his Seaman's record posted below as I am not familiar with naval records. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Follow on questions. I am aware that the ship missed the Battle of Jutland as it was undergoing refit at the time but does anyone know when the ship completed the refit and rejoined the fleet.

The record seems to suggest that William was to join the RNAS but doesn't appear to have done so. Correct?

He seems to have been in the RNVR. Was this before the war then he was called up to serve?

 

Thanks

Steve

haddock.jpg

Edited by Stevejm
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Enlisting for hostilities (duration of the war), he was initially given an RNVR number until called forward for service in the RN on 11 May 1916. Meanwhile, he followed his civilian occupation. "Ar School until services required"

Enlisted as Carpenter's Crew, he had initial training at Devonport (HMS VIVID) before joining HMS EMPEROR OF INDIA, where he served all the rest of his time until demob in Feb 1919. From 1 Oct 1918 he was rated Joiner 4th Class (= Petty Officer). He would have had to transfer to the RNAS before 1 April 1918 when the RNAS became the RAF. He never transferred, He claimed Victory and British War Medals after the war.

P.I.C. refers to the Protection and Identity Certificate that he was given on demob.

Some detail on RN Joiners here  =  https://www.rnranksratings.com/branches/RN/DocsRNpdfLok/1912 Joiners.pdf

EMPEROR OF INDIA seems to have joined the 1st Battle Squadron (Flag 2) fairly soon after Jutland in June 1916.

Edited by horatio2
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17 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

Enlisting for hostilities (duration of the war), he was initially given an RNVR number until called forward for service in the RN on 11 May 1916. Meanwhile, he followed his civilian occupation. "Ar School until services required"

Enlisted as Carpenter's Crew, he had initial training at Devonport (HMS VIVID) before joining HMS EMPEROR OF INDIA, where he served all the rest of his time until demob in Feb 1919. From 1 Oct 1918 he was rated Joiner 4th Class (= Petty Officer). He would have had to transfer to the RNAS before 1 April 1918 when the RNAS became the RAF. He never transferred, He claimed Victory and British War Medals after the war.

P.I.C. refers to the Protection and Identity Certificate that he was given on demob.

Some detail on RN Joiners here  =  https://www.rnranksratings.com/branches/RN/DocsRNpdfLok/1912 Joiners.pdf

EMPEROR OF INDIA seems to have joined the 1st Battle Squadron fairly soon after Jutland in June 1916.

Thank you so much. 

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1 minute ago, Stevejm said:

Thank you so much. 

 

21 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

Enlisting for hostilities (duration of the war), he was initially given an RNVR number until called forward for service in the RN on 11 May 1916. Meanwhile, he followed his civilian occupation. "Ar School until services required"

Enlisted as Carpenter's Crew, he had initial training at Devonport (HMS VIVID) before joining HMS EMPEROR OF INDIA, where he served all the rest of his time until demob in Feb 1919. From 1 Oct 1918 he was rated Joiner 4th Class (= Petty Officer). He would have had to transfer to the RNAS before 1 April 1918 when the RNAS became the RAF. He never transferred, He claimed Victory and British War Medals after the war.

P.I.C. refers to the Protection and Identity Certificate that he was given on demob.

Some detail on RN Joiners here  =  https://www.rnranksratings.com/branches/RN/DocsRNpdfLok/1912 Joiners.pdf

EMPEROR OF INDIA seems to have joined the 1st Battle Squadron fairly soon after Jutland in June 1916.

Just to clarify one point. He joined the Emperor of India on 31st August 1916 by which time the ship had finished its refit and  rejoined the fleet. Is this correct?

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That is my reading of the runes. It looks as though her "refit" was quite short: perhaps a brief docking and essential repairs. Jellicoe's "The Grand Fleet 1914 - 1916" has her back in the Grand Fleet in July 1916.

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18 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

That is my reading of the runes. It looks as though her "refit" was quite short: perhaps a brief docking and essential repairs. Jellicoe's "The Grand Fleet 1914 - 1916" has her back in the Grand Fleet in July 1916.

Thanks again for the reply

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Steve, likely not relevant to your enquiry but thought you might like to view this fine photo of the Torpedo dept of HMS Emperor of India taken upon the wedding of her Torpedo officer.

Taken sometime in 1919 as some ratings are wearing their newly issued 1914-15 stars...

1914-15stars 012.JPG

1914-15stars 011.JPG

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20 hours ago, horatio2 said:

That is my reading of the runes. It looks as though her "refit" was quite short: perhaps a brief docking and essential repairs. Jellicoe's "The Grand Fleet 1914 - 1916" has her back in the Grand Fleet in July 1916.

Just when I thought I had got things clear in my mind I found another document about William Haddock, his RNVR enlistment form which appears to show him with The Emperor of India from  27 October 1914. See below. Any idea how this fits with the other document which shows him joining the ship on 31/8/16 

william haddock rnvr.JPG

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14 hours ago, RNCVR said:

Steve, likely not relevant to your enquiry but thought you might like to view this fine photo of the Torpedo dept of HMS Emperor of India taken upon the wedding of her Torpedo officer.

Taken sometime in 1919 as some ratings are wearing their newly issued 1914-15 stars...

1914-15stars 012.JPG

1914-15stars 011.JPG

Excellent photos. Very interesting thank you

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4 hours ago, Stevejm said:

Just when I thought I had got things clear in my mind I found another document about William Haddock, his RNVR enlistment form which appears to show him with The Emperor of India from  27 October 1914. See below. Any idea how this fits with the other document which shows him joining the ship on 31/8/16 

william haddock rnvr.JPG

I have just realised that this is not the same person as the first document that I posted. The dates of birth are different. Obviously there were two William Haddocks on the same ship! I checked with my friend and he confirmed that this is the correct man. He was a professional seaman before and after the war

Edited by Stevejm
correction
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1 minute ago, horatio2 said:

If the RNVR able seaman is your man you also need his Royal Naval Division (RND) brief record before he was transferred to sea service in HMS E of I.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7274377

 

Thank you. was get it now. Fortunately the NA is allowing free downloads so it won't cost me:-)

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