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German button


KIRKY

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Hi this button found below Thiepval , anyone give me any information , know its German but that is all,

Tony

button.jpg

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Hello!

It seems to be a german "company-button", worn on top of the shoulder strap to indicate the company.

In this case 6th company:

 

Fußart.Btl. 124 (Unteroffizier, EKII, Lippe-Detmold Militär-Verdienstmedaille mit Schwertern).jpg

Edited by The Prussian
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6 hours ago, The Prussian said:

Hello!

It seems to be a german "company-button", worn on top of the shoulder strap to indicate the company.

In this case 6th company:

 

Fußart.Btl. 124 (Unteroffizier, EKII, Lippe-Detmold Militär-Verdienstmedaille mit Schwertern).jpg

Hello The Prussian. Please excuse this question if it seems a little simplistic but I'm very interested in knowing about the finer details of the German uniform. The photograph you have shown is of a soldier with 124 on his shoulder strap with what appears to be a number 6 button. Does this mean that he is in No 124 Regiment or No 124 Battalion? I understand the button with number 6 is the subsidiary unit, in this case No 6 Company. In addition, which buttons would be on the front of his tunic, Regimental or Battalion? Many thanks...

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42 minutes ago, Gunner 87 said:

Hello The Prussian. Please excuse this question if it seems a little simplistic but I'm very interested in knowing about the finer details of the German uniform. The photograph you have shown is of a soldier with 124 on his shoulder strap with what appears to be a number 6 button. Does this mean that he is in No 124 Regiment or No 124 Battalion? I understand the button with number 6 is the subsidiary unit, in this case No 6 Company. In addition, which buttons would be on the front of his tunic, Regimental or Battalion? Many thanks...

 

Hello,

 

The numbered buttons holding the shoulder straps are the company numbers, while the number on the shoulder strap is usually a regimental number, in this case Infanterie-Regiment 124.

The other tunic buttons were either Bavarian (a double-tailed lion) or Prussian ( the king's crown).

 

If you're interested in German uniforms, I can strongly recommend the books by Jürgen Kraus ("Die deutsche Armee im Ersten Weltkrieg - Uniformierung und Ausrüstung 1914 bis 1918" and "Die feldgraue Uniformierung des deutschen Heeres 1907-1918")

 

Jan

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1 minute ago, AOK4 said:

 

Hello,

 

The numbered buttons holding the shoulder straps are the company numbers, while the number on the shoulder strap is usually a regimental number, in this case Infanterie-Regiment 124.

The other tunic buttons were either Bavarian (a double-tailed lion) or Prussian ( the king's crown).

 

If you're interested in German uniforms, I can strongly recommend the books by Jürgen Kraus ("Die deutsche Armee im Ersten Weltkrieg - Uniformierung und Ausrüstung 1914 bis 1918" and "Die feldgraue Uniformierung des deutschen Heeres 1907-1918")

 

Jan

 Brilliant, thank you Jan, I appreciate the explanation. 

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Hello!

Jan is right according to the buttons.

But "my" unit is not Inf.Rgt.124, it is Fußartillerie-Bataillon 124 (heavy artillery Bataillon 124)

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11 minutes ago, The Prussian said:

Hello!

Jan is right according to the buttons.

But "my" unit is not Inf.Rgt.124, it is Fußartillerie-Bataillon 124 (heavy artillery Bataillon 124)

 Thanks The Prussian. How do you tell the difference. Is it the style of number i.e. font?

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Hello!

No. Inf.Rgt.124 had a Monogramm upon the shoulder strap.

This soldier wears a ribbon from Lippe-Detmold (Westphalia) and the Fußart.Btl.124 came from that area. Inf.Rgt.124 came from the South-West (Württemberg)

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2 minutes ago, The Prussian said:

Hello!

No. Inf.Rgt.124 had a Monogramm upon the shoulder strap.

This soldier wears a ribbon from Lippe-Detmold (Westphalia) and the Fußart.Btl.124 came from that area. Inf.Rgt.124 came from the South-West (Württemberg)

 Thank you, I know the area well, I used to live in Lippstadt. I appreciate yours and @AOK4 advice. 

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Thanks guys , I am a little confused so what does the 12 indicate on the button in the photo?

Tony

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52 minutes ago, Gunner 87 said:

 Thank you, I know the area well, I used to live in Lippstadt. I appreciate yours and @AOK4 advice. 

Me too!  Detmold and Lemgo/Biesterburg in my case.  Lovely areas and a proper British Military Hospital too.  55,000 troops in Germany alone back then.  Learning that the Army is shortly to be reduced to 70,000 in total (including those who’ve completed phase 1 training) puts that into perspective.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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6 minutes ago, KIRKY said:

Thanks guys , I am a little confused so what does the 12 indicate on the button in the photo?

Tony

It seems it’s the 12th Company of a particular regiment, but without the other buttons from the tunic it came from it seems it’s not possible to know which unit it was.  At least that’s what I’ve interpreted from the comments of @AOK4and @The Prussian?

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9 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

It seems it’s the 12th Company of a particular regiment, but without the other buttons from the tunic it came from it seems it’s not possible to know which unit it was.  At least that’s what I’ve interpreted from the comments of @AOK4and @The Prussian?

 

Indeed, although it could also be a battery number (in artillery units).

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1 hour ago, The Prussian said:

Hello!

No. Inf.Rgt.124 had a Monogramm upon the shoulder strap.

This soldier wears a ribbon from Lippe-Detmold (Westphalia) and the Fußart.Btl.124 came from that area. Inf.Rgt.124 came from the South-West (Württemberg)

 

Hm, the piping and the style of the shoulder board do suggest some kind of infantry unit over a foot artillery unit (as Fußart. Btl. was only raised in 1917, they should have always had the typical foot artillery shoulder boards with the crossed barrels). I would definitely go for a unit like Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment 124 in this case.

 

Jan

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Good morning,

 

here's my series of company buttons :

 

333078323_boutonsdecompagnie.JPG.a3c05a8c3c860e8184897cbf7c47a517.JPG

1st Line - 1st Battalion
2nd Line - 2nd Battalion
3rd Line - 3rd Battalion
No.13 - machine gunner's company
during the war, companies 4 - 8 - 12 became machine gun companies
No.14 (not here) - fortress machine gunner company
for information, the 1st company of the 1st Foot Guard Regiment, the number 1 is replaced by a Gothic "L"

 

it is yellow or white for pioneer units as well as some infantry regiments:

- 1st - 5th Foot Guard Regiment
- Guard Rifle Regiment
- Lehr Infantry Regiment
- 1st - 3rd Battalion of Grenadier Regiment No. 89
- Rifle Regiment No.90
- Leib Grenadier Regiment No. 100 Saxon - 109 Baden
- Hessian regiment 115, 116, 117, 118 and 168
- Leib Infantry Bavarian Regiment

 

regards

 

michel

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19 minutes ago, battle of loos said:

Good morning,

 

here's my series of company buttons :

 

 

1st Line - 1st Battalion
2nd Line - 2nd Battalion
3rd Line - 3rd Battalion
No.13 - machine gunner's company
during the war, companies 4 - 8 - 12 became machine gun companies
No.14 (not here) - fortress machine gunner company
for information, the 1st company of the 1st Foot Guard Regiment, the number 1 is replaced by a Gothic "L"

 

it is yellow or white for pioneer units as well as some infantry regiments:

- 1st - 5th Foot Guard Regiment
- Guard Rifle Regiment
- Lehr Infantry Regiment
- 1st - 3rd Battalion of Grenadier Regiment No. 89
- Rifle Regiment No.90
- Leib Grenadier Regiment No. 100 Saxon - 109 Baden
- Hessian regiment 115, 116, 117, 118 and 168
- Leib Infantry Bavarian Regiment

 

regards

 

michel

 

Hello,

 

13 was indeed for the single machine gun company (in 1914). I haven't seen or read anything about any numbers over 13. I strongly suspect that from 1915 or so onwards, the numbered buttons were replaced by unified buttons (crown or lion) of the same smaller size.

 

Jan

 

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22 minutes ago, AOK4 said:

 

Hello,

 

13 was indeed for the single machine gun company (in 1914). I haven't seen or read anything about any numbers over 13. I strongly suspect that from 1915 or so onwards, the numbered buttons were replaced by unified buttons (crown or lion) of the same smaller size.

 

Jan

 

 

I checked in Kraus' book "Die deutsche Armee" and indeed, from late 1915 onwards, numbered shoulder board buttons were not longer used.

 

Jan

52 minutes ago, battle of loos said:

during the war, companies 4 - 8 - 12 became machine gun companies

 

 

4th, 8th and 12th companies did not become MG companies, there were just MG companies added, one per battalion: 1st, 2nd and 3rd MG company. But by that time, the numbered buttons were not longer issued (so no need any more for 13, 14 and 15).

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Hello!

I must say, I was wrong with the number 6. Probably it´s a 3. The Fußart.Btl. 124 only had 3 batteries...

Well, Jan, you´re right with the bataillons raised in 1917. But ldw.Rgt.124 also came from Württemberg. So I´m not sure, if he would wear a Lippe medal.

Unfortunately the reverse is blank and the former owner from that photo came from Detmold.

Well I´m not sure for 100%, but Fußart.Btl.124 makes sense. Anyway...

 

 

Edited by The Prussian
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2 minutes ago, The Prussian said:

Hello!

I must say, I was wrong with the number 6. Probably it´s a 3. The Fußart.Btl. 124 only had 3 batteries...

Well, Jan, you´re right with the bataillons raised in 1917. But ldw.Rgt.124 also came from Württemberg. So I´m not sure, if he would wear a Lippe medal.

Unfortunately the reverse is blank and the former owner from that photo came from Detmold.

Well I´m not sure for 100%, but Fußart.Btl.124 makes sense. Anyway...

 

 

 Hello again The Prussian, regarding the medal ribbon on the photograph you posted. Was that an award for gallantry such as the Iron Cross or a regional award, as you say from Lippe-Detmold? many thanks again. 

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Well, it´s this one:

https://www.ehrenzeichen-orden.de/deutsche-staaten/militar-verdienstmedaille-mit-schwertern-1914-2-pragung.html

The Military Merit Medal with swords on the obverse of the medal was introduced by addition on 17 December 1914 by Prince Leopold IV. The Military Merit Medal of the 1st issue, without swords, was awarded twice more in 1915 during the World War. The medal with swords was no longer subject to restitution. Only when the War Merit Cross was awarded did the medal have to be returned. The medals were produced by the court jeweller C.F. Zimmermann in Pforzheim. The medals vary in thickness from 2.3 to 2.9 mm and in weight between 17.3 g and 21.3 g. The medal was awarded over 1900 times. The award includes a certificate with statutes printed on the reverse.
The new minting shows, apart from minor deviations, 2 crossed antique swords at the bottom of the wreath. The medal was awarded to non-commissioned officers and enlisted men (soldier ranks) of the III Battalion of the Infantry Regiment No. 55 (6th Westphalian) and Lippe soldiers in other units who became unfit for service due to a minor wound or illness incurred in the field and were not awarded the Iron Cross or proposed for the award.

 

 

I´ve got one withouth the ribbon...

 

 

OEK 1186 Lippe-Detmold Militärverdienstmedaille m. Schwertern (1).jpg

OEK 1186 Lippe-Detmold Militärverdienstmedaille m. Schwertern (2).jpg

Edited by The Prussian
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8 minutes ago, The Prussian said:

Well, it´s this one:

https://www.ehrenzeichen-orden.de/deutsche-staaten/militar-verdienstmedaille-mit-schwertern-1914-2-pragung.html

The Military Merit Medal with swords on the obverse of the medal was introduced by addition on 17 December 1914 by Prince Leopold IV. The Military Merit Medal of the 1st issue, without swords, was awarded twice more in 1915 during the World War. The medal with swords was no longer subject to restitution. Only when the War Merit Cross was awarded did the medal have to be returned. The medals were produced by the court jeweller C.F. Zimmermann in Pforzheim. The medals vary in thickness from 2.3 to 2.9 mm and in weight between 17.3 g and 21.3 g. The medal was awarded over 1900 times. The award includes a certificate with statutes printed on the reverse.
The new minting shows, apart from minor deviations, 2 crossed antique swords at the bottom of the wreath. The medal was awarded to non-commissioned officers and enlisted men (soldier ranks) of the III Battalion of the Infantry Regiment No. 55 (6th Westphalian) and Lippe soldiers in other units who became unfit for service due to a minor wound or illness incurred in the field and were not awarded the Iron Cross or proposed for the award.

 

 

I´ve got one withouth the ribbon...

 

 

OEK 1186 Lippe-Detmold Militärverdienstmedaille m. Schwertern (1).jpg

OEK 1186 Lippe-Detmold Militärverdienstmedaille m. Schwertern (2).jpg

 Thank you, that's very interesting and informative. 

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With pleasure, mate!!!!!

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1 hour ago, The Prussian said:

Hello!

I must say, I was wrong with the number 6. Probably it´s a 3. The Fußart.Btl. 124 only had 3 batteries...

Well, Jan, you´re right with the bataillons raised in 1917. But ldw.Rgt.124 also came from Württemberg. So I´m not sure, if he would wear a Lippe medal.

Unfortunately the reverse is blank and the former owner from that photo came from Detmold.

Well I´m not sure for 100%, but Fußart.Btl.124 makes sense. Anyway...

 

 

 

It's obviously a 6, and the combination with this kind of shoulder board, makes it clear to me that Fußartillerie-Bataillon 124 is not possible. I am unsure about the second ribbon, it's very difficult to tell from a black/white picture.

I stick to LdwIR 124 as the best possibility.

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Then he would wear the new shoulder straps with white (infantry) pipings.  Württemberg had red pipings.

I´m puzzled...:innocent:

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24 minutes ago, The Prussian said:

Then he would wear the new shoulder straps with white (infantry) pipings.  Württemberg had red pipings.

I´m puzzled...:innocent:

 

White piping as from model 1915...

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