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1907 JAC markings questions


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cheeseman64

Hi. I’ve just acquired a ’07 JAC bayonet, dated 1 ‘16 in a local auction.  Although in rather rough shape, it does have the matching numbered scabbard. 

I’ve found a wealth of information on this site but there are two markings that I’ve not been able to identify. The pommel is marked with what I’m sure is R.L.E., with a fourth character at the end but it’s not clear if it’s a separate marking or not – looks like it could be ‘M’ or even ‘W’. I’ve not found any reference to ‘RLE’ or anything seemingly related.

Secondly, the inspection mark on the ricasso is a crown over an ‘H’ which I haven’t been able to identify either.

 

If anyone knows what either of these refer to I’d appreciate it, or any other observations of note. Cheers, Rod

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Hello Rod,

with regards the Inspection stamp, it looks like there’s an E underneath so I presume there would be a number before the H, eg, 4H over E, similar to the one on this old thread here....https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/267292-chapman-1907-pattern-bayonet/?tab=comments#comment-2708054

Can’t help with that odd pommel marking...sorry.

 

Dave.

 

 

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Rod,

 

If your scabbard is truly "matching numbered", i.e., with the R. LE. M(W) over 399, then you have a very desirable and hard-to-find pairing.

Could you post a photo of the scabbard markings?

Edit: It's interesting that for a 1916 bayonet, there are no re-issue markings.

Also, there is no clearance hole in the pommel, which was introduced in January, 1916.

 

Regards,

JMB

Edited by JMB1943
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cheeseman64

There is just the number on the scabbard, not the letters - I believe they're both 379. Photo added. I also note that compared to the other 1907s I have, which isn't that many, and most that I've seen here, there are no rivets on the locket on the opposite side from the frog stud. Is that indicative of anything in particular? The scabbard is marked HGR1916.  The '6' doesn't show up as well in the photo but appears fairly clear in good light.

 

Dave, thanks for noticing that 'E' under the 'H'. Being so focused on the H, I didn't even see it.

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Looks like the blade was heavy sharpened.

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Rod,

 

Thanks for the photos.

Yes, you have a bayonet and scabbard that have been together since day 1, a nice combination.

No rivets showing because they were originally ground flush, but as a wartime expedient were allowed to remain exposed.

Scabbard leather made by Hepburn, Gale & Ross of east London in 1916.

 

Regards,

JMB

 

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cheeseman64

Thanks very much for the comments. When I picked it up from the auctioneer he pointed out the regimental markings, but he hadn't noticed them beforehand. The photos in the online auction didn't show any of the markings, including the numbering, so I'm quite happy with it.

Very unfortunate about the sharpening.

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Rod,

 

That regimental marking is a puzzle, not British Army so I wonder if Canadian or Indian??

Unfortunately, I don’t know of any listings of units of those latter armies.

Tricks to enhance markings are,

1) rub chalk dust over the area,

or

2) lightly oil the surface,

or

3) view at an angle.

 

If you want to preserve the scabbard, don’t use any leather conditioners or cleaners—they will eventually degrade the leather.

Museum people tend to use only “Renaissance Wax” on leather artifacts.

 

Regards,

JMB

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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