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Remembered Today:

Pipers of the 1st World War


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Roderick Hutchison

Can anyone help please with the names of the pipers of both the Lovat Scouts and also the Fife and Forfar Yeomanry (Scottish Horse)

I am trying to do a research for a French friend who is piper for the Battlefield of the Somme Pipe Band and they do amazing non government supported work for the armed forces

thank you in advance

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FROGSMILE

The best person I know to help is @Ron Abbottand I’m sure that he’ll happen along soon.

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FROGSMILE
19 minutes ago, Roderick Hutchison said:

Many thanks. I await with interest

Roderick

I’ve not seen @Ron Abbottpost for a couple of weeks so perhaps he’s away, but he’s a regular poster on Scottish and especially piper matters so I’m sure he’ll return and pick this up.

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Ron Abbott

Trying to identify them is not easy as they are sometimes referred to as 'mere' troopers, trumpeters or whatever prior to 1914 and during WW1.

 

I've not got much information about pipers in any of these units, however one thing of interest is that a number of the pipers of the Scottish Horse had previously been pipers in the Duke of Atholl's private 'army'.....the Atholl Highlanders; and would return to it after the war.

 

Anyway, here are those that I have recorded -

 

Lovat Scouts

 

1/1st : P/M Donald MacMillan, Piper William Webb, Piper Neil Cameron

2/1st unknown 

3/1st : unknown

1/2nd : maybe P/M John Campbell, Piper John Dow McCalman  

2/2nd P/M Andrew Lawson (subsequently became a commissioned officer in the Royal Highlanders/Black Watch)

3/2nd : unknown

 

Note that the 1/1st, 1/2nd and a company of the 1/3rd became the 10th (Lovat Scout) Bn. Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders in November 1916

 

Scottish Horse Yeomanry

 

1/1st : P/M George Forrest, P/M Peter Stewart, Piper Crombie Duthie

2/1st : P/M Alexander Gordon (1916 to 17)

3/1st : P/M Alexander Gordon (1915 to 16) 

1/2nd : P/M Andrew MacDonald, Piper George Dickson, Piper Thomas S Duff, Piper Hamish MacBeth, Piper Donald MacBeth

2/2nd : unknown

3/2nd : unknown

1/3rd : Piper Wolsely G Collie

2/3rd : unknown

3/3rd : unknown

 

Note that the 1/3rd became the 26th (Scottish Horse Yeomanry) Sqn. MGC in 1916 and one company went to the 10th (Lovat Scots) Cameron Highlanders.  The 1/1st also became the 13th (Scottish Horse Yeomanry) Bn. Royal Highlanders/Black Watch.  

 

Fife & Forfar Yeomanry

 

Piper John Mathewson, Piper Joseph Thomson (as 14th (Fife & Forfar Yeomanry) Bn. Black Watch)

 

 

 

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FROGSMILE

You’ve done a remarkable job of recording so many Ron, given that the records in this area are so imprecise.  I’m sure that @Roderick Hutchisonwill be pleased to get so many names.

 

For Roderick:  I don’t know if you and your French piper friend are aware but only a set number of even the regular Scottish regiments were established for a full complement of pipers. Even as late as 1914 some regular Scottish regiments were obliged to make up the numbers by coopting some of the ‘drummers or buglers’ on their establishments as pipers (i.e. by robbing Peter to pay Paul).  These regiments can be identified by the special arrangements stipulated in Clothing Regulations so that the appropriate dress could be furnished at public expense.  Territorial Force units were operating under their own regulations until the MSA of 1916 and I do not know what, if any special arrangement was made for their establishments of pipers.  The pipers had to be paid for and there was sensitivity that this should be done without denuding the intended fighting strength of infantry units.  Understandably this situation has sometimes led to poor records naming pipers when they were not necessarily formally appointed in a way that was on the record.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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gnr.ktrha

The Fife and Forfar's do not seem to have had a Pipe Band prior to becoming the 14th battalion of the Black Watch. Thereafter a number of their pipers seem to have come from the 10th Bn. Black Watch, when it was disbanded and sent a draft to the 14th Bn. I can't remember if it is their War Diary or their History which mentions their pipers playing near to the end of the war. 
 

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Roderick Hutchison

Thank you very much for this. I appreciate your information, but I had thought that the Scottish Horse had pipers. Sadly my friend John Gilmour who was doing a history of the regiment, is no longer with us. Difficult to ask but I might send an email to Lady Gilmour and see if someone is continuing that which John set out to do. Again I appreciate your help

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FROGSMILE
3 hours ago, Roderick Hutchison said:

Thank you very much for this. I appreciate your information, but I had thought that the Scottish Horse had pipers. Sadly my friend John Gilmour who was doing a history of the regiment, is no longer with us. Difficult to ask but I might send an email to Lady Gilmour and see if someone is continuing that which John set out to do. Again I appreciate your help

Ron has listed some Scottish Horse Yeomanry pipe majors above, so they did indeed have some pipers?  I’m not sure if you misunderstood what I said.  The Yeomanry regiments were a part of the Territorial Force.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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gnr.ktrha

Yes, the Scottish Horse had a Pipe Band from the point they were raised in Scotland in 1903, and also had pipers when the regiment was raised and operated in South Africa during the Boer War. The Fife and Forfar Yeomanry is a different regiment and as I said, I have not been able to find any reference or evidence to them having a pipe band prior to them becoming a battalion of the Black Watch. In fact if anyone had any photographs of the 14th Bn. Black Watch band or of any of their pipers I would love to hear from you.
      
   

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Roderick Hutchison

I really appreciate all the help given to me. Thank you all so much.

I will come back with another challenge, another day as you are all so intelligent

it has to do with The Remnants Reg. I completed a Memorial in my golf club in Scotland and one of the fallen was from the Remnants. Difficult to find

Again my sincere thanks to you all

Roderick

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1 hour ago, Roderick Hutchison said:

it has to do with The Remnants Reg. I completed a Memorial in my golf club in Scotland and one of the fallen was from the Remnants.

 

Hi,

 

Are you sure that's not Remounts?

 

Cheers,

Peter

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gordon92

 @aboode is another member who may be able to help.  I have not seen him post on the GWF for a long time, so a PM is likely the best way to attract his attention.

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Roderick Hutchison,

If you send me an email at XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX I will send you my lists of Pipe Majors of the Lovat Scouts and the Scottish Horse and any other regiment you are interested in.

Aad 

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Ron Abbott
22 hours ago, Ron Abbott said:

Trying to identify them is not easy as they are sometimes referred to as 'mere' troopers, trumpeters or whatever prior to 1914 and during WW1.

 

I've not got much information about pipers in any of these units, however one thing of interest is that a number of the pipers of the Scottish Horse had previously been pipers in the Duke of Atholl's private 'army'.....the Atholl Highlanders; and would return to it after the war.

 

Anyway, here are those that I have recorded -

 

Lovat Scouts

 

1/1st : P/M Donald MacMillan, Piper William Webb, Piper Neil Cameron

2/1st unknown 

3/1st : unknown

1/2nd : maybe P/M John Campbell, Piper John Dow McCalman  

2/2nd P/M Andrew Lawson (subsequently became a commissioned officer in the Royal Highlanders/Black Watch)

3/2nd : unknown

 

Note that the 1/1st, 1/2nd and a company of the 1/3rd became the 10th (Lovat Scout) Bn. Queen's Own Cameron Highlanders in November 1916

 

Scottish Horse Yeomanry

 

1/1st : P/M George Forrest, P/M Peter Stewart, Piper Crombie Duthie

2/1st : P/M Alexander Gordon (1916 to 17)

3/1st : P/M Alexander Gordon (1915 to 16) 

1/2nd : P/M Andrew MacDonald, Piper George Dickson, Piper Thomas S Duff, Piper Hamish MacBeth, Piper Donald MacBeth

2/2nd : unknown

3/2nd : unknown

1/3rd : Piper Wolsely G Collie

2/3rd : unknown

3/3rd : unknown

 

Note that the 1/3rd became the 26th (Scottish Horse Yeomanry) Sqn. MGC in 1916 and one company went to the 10th (Lovat Scots) Cameron Highlanders.  The 1/1st also became the 13th (Scottish Horse Yeomanry) Bn. Royal Highlanders/Black Watch.  

 

Fife & Forfar Yeomanry

 

Piper John Mathewson, Piper Joseph Thomson (as 14th (Fife & Forfar Yeomanry) Bn. Black Watch)

 

 

 

 

Another that I missed out was Peter Turner Wilkie of the Scottish Horse.  He may have actually been P/M (and not just a piper) of one the units of the Scottish Horse  (maybe the 2nd) in WW1, however I'm not certain.  He subsequently served in the Black Watch and between the wars did become Pipe-Major of the Scottish Horse. 

 

Piper William Thomson is another.  He also served in the Scottish Horse Yeomanry but I don't know which regiment specifically (1st, 2nd or 3rd). 

 

There are also a number of men listed as 'Trumpeters' in the Scottish Horse whom I suspect were possibly Pipers. 

They include William Gillies, William M Moffat, James Alexander Murray (1/2nd Scottish Horse), Tom Sharpe, and Harry Knight (1/1st Scottish Horse).

 

There are also listings for a couple of Trumpeters in the Fife & Forfar Yeomanry including George Douglas and William James Shearer but I have no idea whether they were Pipers or not.

 

Edited by Ron Abbott
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Roderick Hutchison

Hi Peter

yes you are correct. At 0300 this morning I awoke and realised my error. Age!!

Will come back

Roderick

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Michelle Young

@aboode I have removed your email address from public view as spammers can harvest. @Roderick Hutchison To contact a member you can use the private messaging system. 

 

Michelle 

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