Who was Charles Patrick Anderson DCM , murdered Ireland 1921

[Ivor Anderson]

His wife Emily Elizabeth Wright had just turned 21 when they got married on 26th April 1919 - she must have been impressed by a CSM with a DCM.

The marriage certificate is the only verifiable civilian document, and it conflicts with his service records. Even if his age was 39 at the time, he was 18 years older.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61188/images/45582_1831109331_1145-00078?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true&pId=59925

[corisande]

I assume that he must have known her before he left for Egypt in Mar 1916.

 

It seems unlikely that he would have  married someone he did not know, withing a couple of weeks of returning from Egypt

 

FWIW he must also have known Miss D Broadhurst before he left for Egypt to have made her his NOK in place of his brother.

[ss002d6252]

Wright family in 1911 - Frederick Charles (the father is away from home).

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBC%2F1911%2FRG14%2F12154%2F0009%2F2

Craig

[ss002d6252]

1901

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBC%2F1901%2F0008753719

 

Craig

[ss002d6252]

Fred was in hospital in 1911

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBC%2F1911%2FRG14%2F12118%2F0085%2F29

 

Craig

[corisande]

So Emily is safely in Wiltshire in 1911.

 

The problem is "how and where  did she meet"  him before he left for Egypt in Mar 1916.

 

It seems unlikely that her family moved to London during that time - her father is still down as a Shepherd on Marriage Cert. The most plausible explanation would be that he was living in Wilts for a while, but I cannot see any evidence for that

[ss002d6252]

I see that Emily and Charles were married in Dorset - a relatively odd choice of places looking at the records so far.

Craig

[corisande]

Both her father and mother came from Dorset, and in fact she went back to Dorset after she was widowed. The pension address is Field Barn Cottage, Tarrant Monkton, Blandford, Dorset

[ss002d6252]

1 minute ago, corisande said:

Both her father and mother came from Dorset, and in fact she went back to Dorset after she was widowed. The pension address is Field Barn Cottage, Tarrant Monkton, Blandford, Dorset

 

So, it's possible that they were back in Dorset pre-marriage.

 

Craig

[corisande]

1 minute ago, ss002d6252 said:

So, it's possible that they were back in Dorset pre-marriage.

 

I would have thought so. But I still have the problem as to how and where he met her.

 

They married within a couple of weeks of his return from Egypt. And it is unlikely that they met in Egypt (possible that they met there, but not probable, as it is unlikely that a single girl, b1898 would have been posted to Egypt in say 1918)

[ss002d6252]

3 minutes ago, corisande said:

 

I would have thought so. But I still have the problem as to how and where he met her.

 

They married within a couple of weeks of his return from Egypt. And it is unlikely that they met in Egypt (possible that they met there, but not probable, as it is unlikely that a single girl, b1898 would have been posted to Egypt in say 1918)

I agree - so he likely either met in London, Wiltshire or Devon. I'd probably think London can be ruled out so he was either in Wiltshire or Devon pre 1916 and also, at some point, possibly in/around Banstead.

Craig

[Ivor Anderson]

Miss D. Broadhurst's address was the London County Asylum, Bandstead. Might she have worked there?

Could Charles or Emily's Dad Frederick have spent time there?

[corisande]

That seems to be the long and short of it. Problem is we are conjecturing, but cannot prove this.

 

What we know about him

 

1) Born about 1880

2) Probably lived in India for at least 6 years around 1898 to 1904

3) Probably worked for Midland Furnishing Company in Holborn in 1915

4) Gave his own address in Dec 1915 as 101 Kings Rd, Kings Cross

5) Gave his NOK in Dec 1916 as his brother William Anderson at same address

6) changed his NOK before leaving the army to Miss D Broadhurst , The London Country Asylum, Banstead

7) Joined the army in Dec 1915 and served in Egypt from Mar 1916 to Mar 1919

8) |His discharge address in Apr 1919 was 6 Ferndale Rd , Clapham

9) He married within a couple of weeks of returning to England. To Emily Wright in Dorset in Apr 1919

10) a child was born in Bromley in April 1920

11) Dec 1920 enlisted in RIC

12) a second child was  born in May 1921 in Salford, Manchester

13) He was murdered in Ireland in May 1921

 

 

 

Edited 28 February , 2021 by corisande

[ss002d6252]

Ferndale Road 1920

 

Ferndale Road 1919




Craig

[Robin Garrett]

1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

Wright family in 1911 - Frederick Charles (the father is away from home).

Clanindon School is, I think, a misreading of Clarendon School. There's a primary school of that name in Tidworth.

[corisande]

You are good at these addresses Craig

 

That looks promising, as it is the same family there at the time he gives the information. However I failed to convince myself that Charles Patrick Anderson was connected to the Pickwicks (though he could have been Walter Percy Pickwick)

 

There is an extensive Ancestry tree

 

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/101473891/person/172056454415/facts

 

The name of the game would be to tie our man "Charles Patrick Anderson" to a member of that family

 

Frederick William and Ellen Pickwick at 6 Ferndale Rd had a number of children The named Frederick George Albert was one of them. But he was born 1898. However Frederick William had a number of siblings. The most likely would be Walter Percy Pickwick b 1881 . He joins Royal Scots in 1897, the record is a couple of fragmented pages, and then he disappears

 

[added]no not him died in South African War  26 Jan 1900 [added]

Edited 28 February , 2021 by corisande

[Guest]

1 hour ago, corisande said:

There is an extensive Ancestry tree

 

     The gentle ringing of alarm bells..............  the greatest single source of misinformation on family history is not Ancestry indexing-it is self-made Ancestry family trees. We could start a new thread on howlers on that one- top of my list would be a local casualty of 1917 where the Ancestry member family tree has the CWGC death details correct-and then proceeds to say that he was killed with the loss of HMS Hood in 1941.  [Shurely shome mishtake-Ed]  

 

      Things I would want are 1881 Census and 1891 Census- to fill out family members. I think the address is more likely to be King's Cross Road rather than King's Road- 101 KCR is a row of mid-Victorian shops with dwellings above. There should be some trace of him or the family on the 1915 register (FMP) the 1914 Kelly (Ancestry) and possibly one of the family as an elector (FMP)- the lists for London for 1918-1920 are on FMP

[The Inspector]

6 hours ago, corisande said:

I assume that he must have known her before he left for Egypt in Mar 1916.

 

It seems unlikely that he would have  married someone he did not know, withing a couple of weeks of returning from Egypt

 

FWIW he must also have known Miss D Broadhurst before he left for Egypt to have made her his NOK in place of his brother.

Hi All,

Emily's father, Frederick Charles Wright is shown as a "Labourer, Army Reserve" on the marriage cert. to her mother Laura White on the 19th April, 1897 at Wimborne St.Giles, Dorset. Frederick was born 25th May 1869, Pentridge, Wiltshire and died  26th March, 1925, Swanmore, Hampshire.

1911 census Frederick not at home, census completed by wife Laura who included him but was crossed out...his occ. she gave as Shepherd. 

Perhaps Frederick Charles Wright and Charles Patrick Anderson had served together and kept in touch.......searching.

Regards Barry

 

Edited 28 February , 2021 by The Inspector

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, The Inspector said:

Hi All,

Emily's father, Frederick Charles Wright is shown as a "Labourer, Army Reserve" on the marriage cert. to her mother Laura White on the 19th April, 1897 at Wimborne St.Giles, Dorset. Frederick was born 25th May 1869, Pentridge, Wiltshire and died  26th March, 1925, Swanmore, Hampshire.

Perhaps Frederick Charles Wright and Charles Patrick Anderson had served together and kept in touch.......searching.

Regards Barry

 

Both those regiments, Wilts and Hants, had white facings on their scarlet tunics, as per the photo posted early in this thread.  This included both, regular and militia battalions.

Edited 28 February , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[The Inspector]

7 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

 

So, it's possible that they were back in Dorset pre-marriage.

 

Craig

Hi All,

Field Barn, Tarrant Monkton in 1921 Fredrick Charles Wright and his wife Laura and son Henry  listed on electoral roll. This is no doubt part of the estate of Tarrant Monkton House the home of Lt. Col. Francis Roger Sedgwick. So Emily's father was a Shepherd but on an Estate?....searching

Here is Emily Elizabeth Wright (m. Anderson/later Ayling) b.19.4.1898 d.Jan, 1987.  Tree on Ancestry...checks out!

Francis Roger Sedgwick was born 5 th July, 1876, Byculla, Bombay, India.......

Regards Barry

Edited 28 February , 2021 by The Inspector

[corisande]

My thanks to all that have helped on this thread

 

My feeling is that we are dealing in "Charles Patrick Anderson" with an alias rather than a foreign (Indian) born man.  There seemed to be a number of clues that  could have unmasked him, but they all were dead ends

 

• We know virtually nothing about him before 1915 enlistment - he might have been a musician (as he later was a Bandmaster). He probably was in Nagpur Rifles in India from 1898 to 1904
• He must have known his wife to be (m. Apr 1919) before he went to Egypt in 1915, but that has been impossible to substantiate
• We have an address of 101 Kings Rd, Kings Cross that he gave as his address on enlistment  in Dec 1915. But we cannot tie him either to the inhabitants in 1911 census nor 1919 Electoral Roll
• The most promising link , I felt, was 6 Ferndale Rd, Clapham, that he gave on his Protection cert as his permanent address. as there was a family registered there in 1919 and for at least 5 more years. So he must have had a link to these people - Frederick W Pickwick and family
• Working back to 1911 census , the Pickwicks were at 35 Hubert Rd , Stockwell and had a lodger "Charles Harris"
• 
• Charles Harris was as close to a clue as I could find, but the name was too common to get anywhere. I suspect , but cannot prove, that he is a Charles Harris, without parents, who joined Royal Artillery as a 15 year old Musician, but left after 3 years in 1892
• If that were our man Charles Patrick Anderson, then as a married Charles Harris in 1911, he may have wanted a new life without a wife. And might explain why he married using his alias in 1919

But this is all conjecture. Without further clues I do not think that we can solve this one. If nothing else it gives us a chance to hone our skills at trying to solve this sort of problem. Thank you all

[The Inspector]

Hi All,

Searching the Wright family to see if anyone else has any info.......

For the records, some families don't appear to know...........Frederick Charles Wright's "mother"? Elizabeth was in fact his step-mother,  b.1838 Alderbury. Wiltshire , maiden name  Elizabeth Jane Selwood 

1881 census shows she had 3 children all born out of wedlock, also recorded on 1871 census as illegitimate.

1871...Coincidentally living next door was her future husband Henry Wright, 8 years younger than Elizabeth! They were married on 26th May, 1877, Pentridge, Dorset. Henry recorded as a Bachelor, Shepherd.

1871 Frederick C and his brother Frank are shown as Henry and Emma Wright's children. She was Emma Leaver b. 1847 Broad Chalk, Wilts m Henry Wright Bishopstone,  Wilts 20th March, 1867. She died 1876 Wimborne , Dorset, aged 29 yrs., reg'd 3rd qtr.

Regards Barry

[The Inspector]

Hi Corisande and all,

Forgive my ignorance......

The Military Court of Enquiry held on 22nd May, 1921, as per your original post,  where would those records be held? If they were indeed kept.

As 75 years have now passed is it possible to apply for the docs. to be released?

Certainly reads like a big cover up to me.

Regards Barry

 

[corisande]

4 minutes ago, The Inspector said:

The Military Court of Enquiry held on 22nd May, 1921, as per your original post,  where would those records be held? If they were indeed kept.

 

The records were certainly kept, but appear to have "disappeared. Either they have been withheld or misfiled.

 

There is a full index book available of all such military inquiries. During the War of Independence much of Ireland was under Military Law (bit like Burma today!). The British were wary/frightened/unable to hold normal inquests - they could not get jurors prepared to sit on inquests, and when they did manage to have one, the British did not like the results. Hence Military Law and Military inquests

 

The way the inquests are held in TNA today - box files with loose folders from each Military inquest makes mis-indexing quite possible. But it seems inevitable that when spies were shot and the body turned up at a Military inquest, then the resultant file has disappeared (normally a full file with the evidence from a number of witness is available at TNA and online)

 

Examples of this disappearance of files is (I have not cross checked, but they are examples)

Jack Straw was clearly a spy but the inquest is not available

George O'Connor 

Patrick Mulloy

Patrick O'Meara

I have not noted on my overall chart of deaths from IRA shooting whether an Inquest is findable or not . You would have to go through the details to pull out all missing inquests

 

In the case of Charles Patrick Anderson  He is noted normally in the Register of Military Inquests. The death cert says there was a military inquest, and the newspaper reports refer to it, but nothing was published (newspaper reporters were excluded from military inquests)

 

The book is arranged in bound pages, with each page having about a dozen inquests, and they run by date. so without making it obvious , these pages have not been redacted. There is also an index abstract to the inquests, and he appears on those. But the inquest itself is not there

 

To be quite honest, I have never tried to see if there is a way of getting missing inquests.

 

 

[The Inspector]

Hi Corisande,

Thanks for the reply, constantly learning on the GWF.

Regards Barry