corisande Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 Charles Patrick Anderson won the DCM and was MID in WW1. He left the Army and became an RIC Sgt in Ireland and was killed on 21 May 1921 . The killers were never found, and nobody in IRA claimed responsibility for his death. O'Halpin's excellent book on the dead of the War of Independence wrongly cites the killing that night as being of Sgt Joseph Anderson. The Death Cert is for Charles, and all the facts like the DCM show it was Charles who was murdered that night But who was Charles Patrick Anderson? My notes on him are on this link - click. Which includes service details , DCM citation, marriage and death certs 1. He joined the RIC in 1920. The only verifiable fact is the marriage he gave on RIC registration . 1919 Apr 26. Married Emily Elizabeth Wright in Dorset. indicates dob of 1882. He signs himself with his DCM. He gives his father as Arthur Anderson, Lt in Royal Navy(the father I cannot verify) 2. His age is inconsistent across documents. 1879 in RIC register, 1882 on his marriage cert (it is the right marriage as the date is exact with RIC Register) , death cert gives 1880, his army enlistment gives 1877 3. His stated name and age of a birth of 26 Dec 1879 in London does not check out 4. On the fragment of his 1915 enlistment he gives that he had previously served in in Nagpur Volunteer Rifles. The Nagpur Volunteer Rifles, also known as Nagpore Rifles (Nagpur Rifles) was a former infantry regiment under the British Colonial Auxiliary Forces in India. I know nothing about them and cannot verify that he served with them 5. So he does not exist anywhere on documents until he enlists in 1915. 6. There are a number of Ancestry trees that are rubbish, and I cannot put any confidence in them 7. He could have served under an alias, but he married under the name of Charles Patrick Anderson which perhaps indices that was his real name 8. He could have been born and lived overseas until 1915, but I cannot find him 9 He claimed (on his marriage cert) that his father was Lt Arthur Anderson RN, which if it were true, could explain why I cannot get the birth and his life before 1915. But I cannot find a suitable Arthur Anderson. 10 He may have been on Intelligence work in Ireland and was probably shot for that reason. The inquest is not available, which is a good sign that he was a spy. And the details of his death given by Dublin Castle were opaque - his age in their press release does not tie with the death cert (I would go by the death cert in this sort of case). The Castle release does say he won DCM twice over (in fact he got 1 DCM and 1 MID) and that he had two children and a wife in Manchester (which is true) So can anyone help me find out any more about Charles Patrick Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 Any idea what the Midland Furnishing Company connection was ? There is the reference to a brother, William, and then a Miss D Broadhurst of London County Asylum at banstead. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 27 February , 2021 Author Share Posted 27 February , 2021 That is well spotted, I missed that. His DCM listing in LG shows that he enlisted at Banstead. Presumably Miss D Broadhust was his flame at the time he enlisted. I'll see what I can get on her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 Service in Nagpur Rifles would need to be pre 1904. Quote The Nagpur Volunteer Rifles was a volunteer auxiliary regiment formed in December 1860. In 1904 the unit absorbed the Berar Volunteer Rifle Corps. It was renamed the 2nd Nagpur Rifles on 1 April 1917, and underwent a further name change in December 1927, becoming the Nagpur Regiment. In 1937 the unit name reverted to the designation, Nagpur Rifles. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 27 February , 2021 Author Share Posted 27 February , 2021 Service in Nagpur Rifles would need to be pre 1904. I don't think there is a problem with the timeline. To me its more a question of how and why he got to Nagpur . It could explain part of his "invisibility" prior to 1915. But I also have the problem of his not being in 1911 census, As far as I can see he was not in UK and not in British Army in 1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 Might to be a complete wrong lead but there is this one for Surrey and not too far from Banstead (appears to 14-15 miles). D Bredhurst and an Indian connection. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 27 February , 2021 Author Share Posted 27 February , 2021 The Midland Furnishing Company certainly had tracked down the right man. Of course by Aug 1921 he was dead, so that presumably was the end of the road for them I could not get anything in the press to connect him to them. The assumption is that he had a job with them pre-war and fiddled the books - though he gave his pre-war job to the RIC as "caretaker" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 5 minutes ago, corisande said: Service in Nagpur Rifles would need to be pre 1904. I don't think there is a problem with the timeline. To me its more a question of how and why he got to Nagpur . It could explain part of his "invisibility" prior to 1915. But I also have the problem of his not being in 1911 census, As far as I can see he was not in UK and not in British Army in 1911 I don't think it's an issue either but it adds a possible dating event. I notice in 1915 the home address he gives is the same as the one he supplies for his brother. Both 101 Kings Road, Kings Cross. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 27 February , 2021 Author Share Posted 27 February , 2021 Dorothy Broadhurst, a servant in the employ of a retired Indian Army Officer. Yes, a possible, I will have a go to see if I can link her to Banstead later on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 2 minutes ago, corisande said: The Midland Furnishing Company certainly had tracked down the right man. Of course by Aug 1921 he was dead, so that presumably was the end of the road for them I could not get anything in the press to connect him to them. The assumption is that he had a job with them pre-war and fiddled the books - though he gave his pre-war job to the RIC as "caretaker" I had a feeling it was a 'we're trying to track him down' sort of letter, Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 27 February , 2021 Author Share Posted 27 February , 2021 in 1915 the home address he gives is the same as the one he supplies for his brother. Both 101 Kings Road, Kings Cross. Yes, I had seen that, but was unsure if I could make anything of it. In other words was he just giving his brother's address as he had only just arrived in UK. Or was he living with his brother on a more permanent basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 From 1918 -1920 the Robinson family were in 101 Kings Road on the electoral roll from what I can see. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 27 February , 2021 Author Share Posted 27 February , 2021 Dorothy Broadhurst, a servant in the employ of a retired Indian Army Officer. Dorothy Rachel Broadhurst of 1911 census seems particularly opaque, in that does not seem to appear in any other records :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 In 1911 the Gough Family lived 101 Kings Road, so, if the address is correct, the 'Andersons' must have lived there some time between 1912 and 1918 https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/2352/images/rg14_00726_0299_03?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=0dfc6900a35ad11a4b08ccef25551bcf&usePUB=true&_phsrc=YaU306&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=1835106 Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 Passenger list from Bombay on 14 Oct 1914, docked in London. Charles Kirkpatrick Anderson. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1518/images/30807_A000595-00024?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=fe176e32c35227f30744118b7b6759e6&usePUB=true&_phsrc=YaU309&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=20658420 Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 27 February , 2021 Author Share Posted 27 February , 2021 101 Kings Road I see on the electoral roll for 1918 that there was a William Robinson. I will see if Charles might have been a Robinson. Take a while to do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 27 February , 2021 Author Share Posted 27 February , 2021 Passenger list from Bombay on 14 Oct 1914, docked in London. That Charles Anderson is born around 1870, so is . I think, too old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 Just looking again, I think that it is this man - retired from the IA in April 1914. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 27 February , 2021 Author Share Posted 27 February , 2021 His family believe that this is a photo of him . This small one is only one published , so nothing better is available. Can anyone say what uniform he is wearing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 Post 1881 service/good conduct chevron on the left lower arm? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 3 hours ago, ss002d6252 said: Might to be a complete wrong lead but there is this one for Surrey and not too far from Banstead (appears to 14-15 miles). D Bredhurst and an Indian connection. Craig Under Dorothy is Cork of any significamce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 27 February , 2021 Author Share Posted 27 February , 2021 (edited) I assume that it is not 1915 - 1919 London Regt Could it be Nagpur Rifles ? Under Dorothy is Cork of any significance? I think it is a mis-transcription for "Cook" Edited 27 February , 2021 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 1 minute ago, johnboy said: Under Dorothy is Cork of any significamce? I think its supposed to be 'cook'. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 27 February , 2021 Share Posted 27 February , 2021 1 minute ago, corisande said: I assume that it is not 1915 - 1919 London Regt Could it be Nagpur Rifles ? Can't imagine a dress uniform would have been issued for the war time service so it may well be the rifles. I'm no expert but it 'looks' that sort of era to me. He also served 6 years, so could have received a stripe if they could issue them in the rifles? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Anderson Posted 28 February , 2021 Share Posted 28 February , 2021 (edited) His death certificate gives him as 41 in 1921 (born c.1879/80) whereas 2 army documents give his year of birth as 1871 and (the next page) aged 49 in March 1919 (born 1869/70). That is a 10 year range in documented ages! Perhaps KLR clerical errors? https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/1219/images/miuk1914e_123600-00846?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=aee2d59b35896f2985c4906547bc7297&usePUB=true&_phsrc=AHE9712&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&pId=75330 He was certainly a 'rolling stone'! His family do not appear to know anything definite about him pre-WW1. Were his medals returned (roll off Ancestry)? Edited 28 February , 2021 by Ivor Anderson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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