Assistance Required, Ernest Richards, Yorkshire and Dorset Regiments

[GoldenMan]

Hello All

 

I am trying to piece together my Grandfather's wartime history but I am not getting very far. I know his service numbers but not really very much else.  Any suggestions of were to search would be greatly appreciated.

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum. Please post his name, regiment(s), service numbers, place of birth and any other information, and the forum will hopefully help you. Also read the How To research a soldier on the Long Long Trail.

 

Michelle 

 

 

[GoldenMan]

I will thank you.

Ernest Richards born in Middlesbrough 01 May 1897. 

Yorkshire Regiment 27988

Dorsetshire Regiment 46746 (Royal Garrison Artillery judging by his uniform).

We believe he was gassed at some point.

 

Many thanks 

[Michelle Young]

Can you post the photo please? RGA is not a branch of the Dorset Regiment 

[Michelle Young]

Looking at his medal index card, there's no mention of RGA. He didn't serve in a theatre of war until after January 1st 1916 as he is entitled  to the Victory and War medals. 

[GoldenMan]

Hi

 

I was under the impression that the Dorsetshire regiment trained gunners for the western front under the Dorsetshire Royal Garrison Artillery 

[Michelle Young]

Did he stay on in the army post war? His MIC shows him as a private soldier only, not as an officer, which the man in the photo obviously is, there is no other rank shown on the card. 

[GoldenMan]

We are not sure unfortunately.

[ss002d6252]

 

Quote

I was under the impression that the Dorsetshire regiment trained gunners for the western front under the Dorsetshire Royal Garrison Artillery 

They were separate units - there were various county/regional units of different branches - so infantry, artillery, army service corps etc.

 

Craig

[GoldenMan]

I have been told that he has four medals in totally but I have yet to see them. A other member of the family is being "difficult".

[Michelle Young]

Are you sure you have the right man from the MIC? Do you have his medals, if so they will have the name, rank and regiment impressed on the rim. 

[Polar Bear]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Michelle and ss002d6252 are (of course) right. The Dorsetshire Regiment was an Infantry Regiment. The Dorsetshire Royal Garrison Artillery were a completely separate unit (though the confusion is entirely understandable). Instead the Dorsetshire Royal Garrison Artillery was a Territorial Force (by the 1st World War) unit of The Royal Garrison Artillery. Certainly the photograph is of an artillery officer.

 

Hope that helps,

 

P

[charlie962]

He has a partial surviving service record that covers Yorkshire enlistment and Dorsets discharge. I can see it on FindmyPast but not looked at Ancestry although it should be there.

 

That photo looks like an officer cadet. 3 overseas service chevrons will give a not-before date.

[ss002d6252]

The man in the picture has at least 3 overseas service chevrons so has had at least 2 years overseas. It dates the picture to 1918 or later.

Craig

[GoldenMan]

What information came from the medals 

 

"Pte E Richards 27988 York R"

[ss002d6252]

If it is Ernest then he went overseas on 13 Oct 1916 so that would mean the picture has to be on/after 13 Oct 1918 for 3 overseas chevrons.
13 Oct 1916

 

Looking further, he was discharged 25 Sep 1919 with no sign he was an officer at that point.

 

Craig

[ss002d6252]

To me it seems it's either post 1919 or it looks like it's not Ernest in that picture.

Craig

[PRC]

Agree he is an officer cadet - but not finding any likely surviving officer records for an Ernest Richards who doesn't have a middle name. Drew a blank on a search of the London Gazette for a commissioning as well - they all seem to have middle names.

 

Just in case I tried looking for the birth records for

39 minutes ago, GoldenMan said:

Ernest Richards born in Middlesbrough 01 May 1897. 

to confirm whether or not there were other names involved - but drew a blank. The birth of an Ernest John Richards was registered with the Civil Authorities in the Middlesborough District in the April to June quarter of 1895 - but I just may be unlucky in the sources I'm using or his birth may have been registered under another name or in another part of the country, (i,e. not Yorkshire!)

 

The 1901 Census of England & Wales has both a five year old Ernest, (born Grangetown, parents Ernest and Julia) and an Ernest H, born Ireland, living with an aunt and uncle) - but no candidate for a younger Ernest. On the 1911 Census only the Grangetown born Ernest is recorded.

 

So can I ask - what is the source that the soldier and the officer are one and the same man?

 

Cheers,

Peter

[charlie962]

Look through the Service record- it is not good. Highly unlikely he was the Officer Cadet in the gunner photo!

 

On Find my past service records exist under Richards 27988 and Richards 46746, both for the same man.

 

Ancestry 46746 here

Edited 27 February , 2021 by charlie962

[ss002d6252]

1 minute ago, PRC said:

So can I ask - what is the source that the soldier and the officer are one and the same man?

That is a key question.

 

Are there any of the photographer's details on the picture ?

 

Craig

[GoldenMan]

As far as I am aware it is the same man. As I young boy my late mother shown me that photograph as being her late father. He died when she was 11 years old or so. When I inherited the family photos it was among the early part of the collection. I cannot see any reason for some random photograph to be in there.

There is nothing on the back of it. It's just a postcard on the reverse. 

[RaySearching]

Ernest Richards was discharged from duty on the 25th 9/1919  Private 46746 Dorset Reg

 previously Pte 2nd Yorks 27988

His address shown as 28 Calthorpe Street Middlesbrough

 

He married Catherine McCabe in 1920

 

1939 register shows him residing at 13 Essex Street Middlesbrough  (INCAPACITATED)

 

He only attained the rank of Pte  which indicates that the soldier in the photo cannot be him

 

(unless he was commissioned post war) 

 

[PRC]

10 minutes ago, GoldenMan said:

As far as I am aware it is the same man. As I young boy my late mother shown me that photograph as being her late father. He died when she was 11 years old or so. When I inherited the family photos it was among the early part of the collection. I cannot see any reason for some random photograph to be in there.

 

It may well be that the photograph is of your grandfather, in which case it is the medals that might belong to someone else in the extended family, but it's proving difficult to join up the two things as relating to the same man.

 

There may well be something out there that establishs the link and then suddenly all the pieces will fall into place, but it may just take a bit of digging.

 

Possibly time to go back to basics on the genealogy side. You quote a date of birth of the 1st May 1897 for Ernest Richards at Middlesbrough.

May be an error on my part, but I'm struggling to confirm that.

Has this come from a birth certificate, 1939 Register, Death Certicate, some combination of known birthday, (1st May) and a stated age at some point, etc.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited 27 February , 2021 by PRC
Typo

[RaySearching]

2 minutes ago, PRC said:

Has this come from a birth certificate, 1939 Register, Death Certicate, some combination of known birthday, (1st May) and a stated age at some point, etc.

 

1939 register confirms the date of birth as  1st May 1897

[GoldenMan]

I am starting to think that the four medals my relative has could well be the key. I have seen the medal card that shows two medals being awarded. 

 

Thank you all.