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Remembered Today:

Norfolk Regiment Casualty and Sickness Book - what might 'ah Arret' mean? And how debilitating was Trench Fever?


JDB

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I've picked a random CWGC entry to show how the concentration sheets show up. If you can find a similar entry for Norfolk C post the name & number or link.

 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/463158/BERTIE

 

Next, I found the links to the prepared concentration files completed by the CEFSG.

 

There are two links on this page, one to F7 C2 CWGC Binders (3 folders) and one to Concentration of Grave - Burial Report Binders. Hunt through these folders for Norfolk Cemetery. For some reason my phone will only load down to Bray MC. 

 

Can't guarantee there are Norfolk C files here but if they are that makes life easier.

https://cefresearch.ca/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=12508

 

TEW

 

 

 

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https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/39402/G CHASE/

 Hi Tew, 

 

Well that was a fascinating couple of hours - genuinely - thank you.  I haven't found anything to add anything to the missing George Hipperson puzzle but it is interesting to see these documents. I know what you mean now by the Graves Registration Reports and yes, I've seen those attached to individual soldier records but as you say, its much easier in a list of course.  But I've not seen some of the other documents in these files. 

 

Anyway, I've gone through all 4 binders - the cemetery is not listed under either 'Bercodel-Becourt' or 'Norfolk Cemetery' in either the 'Exhumation Reports' or the 'Concentration of Grave - Burial Reports' or  the 'Grave registration Report Forms - From cemetery where bodies exhumed'. 

 

However, when it comes to the 'Grave Registration Report Forms'  they do have Becourt Cemetery. I know this is nearby but not the same  - it has a different map reference and anyway, Becourt doesn't contain the remains of the soldier I chose as an example out of the ones from the same unit, who were killed more or less the same time as Hipperson was - G. Chase, 1st Norfolks, killed 4/8/15 (the day before Hipperson) and buried in Bercordel Becourt: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/39402/G CHASE/   His grave is not in the Becourt listing in those files but clearly it does have a Grave Registration form as its attached to his CWGC record. 

 

Yet there  seem to be lots of cross references between Becourt Military Cemetery and Bercordel-Becourt that I can't make out. I've attached just the first page from the Becourt Cemetery listing for you to see.  Unless, they are just using Bercodel-Becourt as a term for the general vicinty...

 

Oddly as well, in the Becourt listings, there are 3 individually named German and French soldiers that are noted as having been removed from Becourt.  Yet, a note saying  the same thing is written across the top of the Bercodel-Becourt sheet which JP posted  yesterday - so which were they in?  Or am I misreading that?

 

I  also note that in the lists of completed cemeteries that the Canadians have done (such fabulous work!) , they list the cemeteries for the Somme Sept-Nov 1916 and they have Becourt Military Cemetery, Becordel-Becourt' all in one line too. 

 

Anyway, here are a few unknown soldiers listed in Becourt - one with no regiment and one each from 13 KRRC, 15 HLI and 21 Northumberland.

 

I hope you can follow the above... not sure I can any more!  But my thanks to you once again. 

 

Becourt Military Cemetery GRRF Binder (1).pdf

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JDB,

I can tell it's got your interest! You may want to consider starting a new topic for the burial/UBS/Grrf/Concentration aspect. That should attract the right attention.

 

I did wonder about the Becourt Cemetery, is this the one that became Dartmoor C.

 

In the meantime you may want to read this post.

TEW

 

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JDB, the 2 seem to correlate well.  There are 31 CWGC cemeteries and memorials within 3.75km of 57d.X.25.c.4.4 (blue pin).  The minor discrepancy is because the modern CWGC coordinates are at the nearest road junction:.  Note that Dartmoor and Becourt are listed separately.

 

courtesy tMapper

image.png.a6d4dd1ea7107349fcb63f5c9a5df861.png

 

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Thanks Tew - Yes, it really is very, very interesting... I'm so grateful for all your help and will have a look at the post you have pointed out. 

 

And WhiteStarLine - hello - and thank you for your contribution - Wow, there they all are - so many in such a small area.  Really helps with the perspective. Thank your very much indeed. 

 

All the comments and links and documents have been so helpful - we never stop learning and its opened up all sorts of scenarios and perhaps even alternatives, beyond simply one of the missing on Thiepval.  Sincere thanks to one and all. 

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What I've gleaned from another post is that the concentrations into Norfolk BC are noted on GRRFs 24c-28c. I'm not convinced that's the full quota though as it's about 200 men short. Possible that 24c-39c are the concentrations.

 

Anyway, looking at the GRRFs there were two original burials of Norfolks now UBS, these are not concentrations.

Based on what CWGC say (the five sheets) there are 85 UBS original burials with no ID at all and 29 as concentrations. No original location given for the concentrations.

 

Quite why he would be originalky buried away from the other 1/Norfolks is a mystery as is why he would be buried in another cemetery or in the field.

TEW

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