Service Record Notations Intelligence Police

[Laura lee]

I am researching an Archibald Edward John Walker. I have looked at some of his military records and I was wondering if you might be able to help me make sense of them. I have his medal card which says 36th training reg 8/14314 and Hampshire reg 05299. Roll C/1/103829 p. 2857 (or maybe 4) and then some notes I can't make out. Then he is listed among individuals entitled to a Victory Medal and/or British War Medal.  (attached) It notes 36th train: Rse. pte. and then the number again 8/14314. Then in red pen, "for duty with intelligence police" and then a long series of codes. Can anyone help me make sense of any of this?

[Guest]

Good Evening Laura,

     A continuing welcome to Great War Forum.  This fellow Archibald Walker looks interesting from the off.  He has another Medal Card at The National Archives (there will be a better quality colour one on Ancestry) which shows he went to Intelligence and thence was commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant in the Labour Corps.  

 

 

   Given his late date of entry into a theatre of war, 15th March 1918, and his subsequent commission, then it is likely he served post-war and may still have a service file with the Ministry of Defence. I cannot find a service file for him at The National Archives but I may have missed it. For some reason, "Ireland" is shouting out when the word "Intelligence" is used 

    I have not yet checked the London Gazette etc for his commission details or any other information.  But he would appear to be the same person (???? or not) who is noted on Trove in a newspaper article from Adelaide,South Australia in 1915 as being a bankrupt in London, viz:

 

 

 

  Alas, he is already shaping up to be one in my oft-threatened occasional series of "Wrong 'Uns of the Great War".   He should have a bankruptcy file with the Board of Trade records at the National Archives but,again,I have not yet found it.

  I hope some of this fits in with what you have

 

Pip,pip

 

[Laura lee]

Thank you for that, yes, he is the person who lost his inheritance. His bankruptcy file was not chosen for preservation. I've done a lot of research into him outside of the military, so I'm not really looking for that kind of information at this point, but I was curious if there's a way through all those notations to figure out what kind of intelligence work he was doing in the war?

[Guest]

The Gazettes have him bankrupted twice-one for being swindled out of an inheritance in 1915 and again in 1927.  The latter is with The Cayme Press, one of the publishers of lighter literature that came and went in the interwar years. It published a goodly range of literary titles, usually in attractively bound editions with some thought given to the right typography. Alas, it also published some semi-obscene books,usually typographically good editions of works involving boys,spanking,etc.  There is a considerable literature nowadays on the earlier Gay literature -or at that end of the market so that should be readily knocked down. His appearances in the Gazettes show that he was reluctant to go outside of the wealthier "W" postcode districts of West London.

    Apologies for repeating this to you- This crosses with your post.   The likeliest source is to ask the Ministry of Defence if they hold a service file for him. If they do, you may have to pay a fee to get the guts of it disclosed from Glasgow, where the admin.is done.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Laura lee]

Thanks for the information. He was also arrested in 1928 for gross indecency, but found not guilty...

[kenf48]

In answer to your original question it actually says  36th Training Reserve, the Training Reserve was based in the UK and therefore those serving only in the Training Reserve (TR) were not entitled to medals.  When it appears on the Medal Roll it usually means a soldier was in a draft from the TR and was posted to the BEF and transferred to an active service Battalion at the Base Depot.

 

See https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/training-reserve/

 

 

It is an unusual notation, the Inelligence Corps in WW1 was very much embryonic, other ranks were usually posted to the Royal Fusiliers as a ‘cover’.  You will have noticed no Hampshire Regiment Battalion is shown, unlike the other entries on the Roll.

 

https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/intelligence-corps

 

 

The red ink entry is relatively common ‘BWM and VM retd KR 1743 CRV etc/7988 adt in English, ‘British War Medal and Victory Medal returned King’s Regulations 1743 certified receipt voucher dated 22 June 1923 then 7988 ‘adt’ sometimes referred to as ‘adjustment’ but the jury is out on that.  The entry under the ‘remarks’ clarifies the issue of medals was authorised.

 

I suspect the medals were returned if they were issued with the rank of L/Cpl and to add his commissioned rank.  His medal index card above shows he was on the Labour Corps Officers Roll but that doesn’t appear to be indexed on Ancestry.  There is correspondence noted on the back of the mic on Ancestry dated 1920.  There is also an address.

 

Basically it shows there was some confusion over the issue/namingbof medals; officers had to apply for their medals, other ranks were sent out by registered post to their last address.

 

 

His commission dates from the entry into theatre as shown on the mic

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30634/supplement/4638

 

All very intriguing.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Laura lee said:

Thanks for the information. He was also arrested in 1928 for gross indecency, but found not guilty...

 

     Gosh!!    His military record is beginning to look very interesting indeed.   I note what you say about his bankruptcy file not being preserved by Board of Trade but I presume this very interesting item is from the same source about the same man:

 

Diary of Archibald Walker

This record is held by City of Westminster Archives Centre

• See contact details

	Record was deposited on permanent loan by the Department of Trade, Bankruptcy Headquareters, 2-14 Bunhill Row, London July 1982.

 

Diary of Archibald Walker

This record is held by City of Westminster Archives Centre

• See contact details

Reference:	Accession 1257
Title:	Diary of Archibald Walker
Description:	The diary provides an interesting insight into the life of Archibald Walker, recording both his business and social engagements. At the start of the diary he was in partnership with Maurice Shaw, trading as Walker Shaw Syndicate Ltd from 28 St James Square. However, the collaboration was under stress as witnessed by the entry of 2 June "Saw Shaw at the office and had a very acrimonious discussion with him". The partnership dissolved and in September Walker received news that Shaw had died of his wounds received in action. The fact that the Kelly's London Post Office Directory for 1916 records a new company of Walker, Walker Co Ltd at 28 St James Square, suggests that Archibald went into partnership with his brother George. However, there is no subsequent record of this company.   The majority of the diary entries refer to Walker's busy social life in London, taking in clubs, restaurants, theatres and cinemas. It is clear that he had a great number of male friends. There are frequent mentions to his auntie (who died of a heart attack on 7 June), his brother George Stafford Walker and a school boy Alick who he visited in Folkestone. From August 13-19 August he even took Alick on a visit to Paris.   There is not a great of commentary on the progress or impact of the war, although the entry for 12 May does record "The anti-German feeling is strong and people fear riots and trouble; the city seem to expect that there will be a lot of damage done to property held by Germans over here". There are also mentions of the entry of both Italy and Romania into the war. Also there are some mentions of news of friends and acquitances such as the entry for 20 May recording Reggie Marin doing "remarkably well at Gallipoli" and on 26 May the death of Chris Selwyn "poor fellow he was an awful prig".   Of particular interest are two accounts of Zeppelin raids, the first on 6 September, "Saw the Zeppelin raid on Wednesday from Leicester Square. Much excitement but no alarm except in the breast of one or two ladies occupied in plying the ancient trade. These saw fit to faint. The public expecting another raid but nothing happened although several places were raided. I hear there is much disatisfaction with the air services in England generally even in the W O" and then 31 October "In a recent raid on Ashford by Zeppelins a man was caught with a skylighting apparatus leading the machines, he was shot. The machine was ingenious shutting up to look like a small handbag".   In November 1915 Walker moved to a new house in Great Queen Street but the diary does not continue into 1916. A possible suggestion that he was called up to serve in the army is the transcription of a poem by M Allington giving details of the way in which he would like to be remembered should he be killed in action.
	30 April - 12 November 1915

PS-  In regard to his non-military activities-  I am a pretty much retired bookseller- Have you had a word with my erstwhile colleague Michael Goss, of Delectus books, who is quite a scholarly expert on the Cayme Press type of literature??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 9 February , 2021 by Guest

[RaySearching]

 

The fact that the Kelly's London Post Office Directory for 1916 records a new company of Walker, Walker Co Ltd at 28 St James Square, suggests that Archibald went into partnership with his brother George. However, there is no subsequent record of this company.

 

His brother mentioned above, George Stafford Walker died of wounds on the 20th Nov 1917

 

[TEW]

The KR 1743 means the set of medals issued by Hampshire Regt. were returned unclaimed. In other words he had more than likely changed address, the medals sent out automatically around Autumn of 1920. He never set eyes on these medals and may have never been aware of their issue.

 

The note under remarks is unusual but it refers back to the same medal roll. The corresponding MIC notes that the unit for stamping Hamps. Regt. auth.  Min 7. NB. Hamps. Regt. on MIC & Roll should be Hants. Regt.

 

Meanwhile he had actually already applied for medals as an officer on a Labour Corps roll with the Intelligence Corps noted but the rank given as L/Cpl. It looks like it took over two years before they sent these medals out to him at the Devonshire Terrace address. Other officers on his roll waited only 2 months.

 

The parts I'm not sure of are the Min7 reference and the WA/2688 reference. The later connects to the NW reference which is alphabetical for surnames S-W. The WA probably = Walker?

 

Long winded I know but the medal office took a long time to issue his medals having sent out one set which hadn't been returned as yet. They still sent out a second set with the first set outstanding. Nothing actually on either card or roll that identifies that they were dealing with one person unless that's in correspondence noted by the odd references. Nothing here I think that relates to anything other than an awkward medal issuing situation.

TEW

 

 

[Guest]

 

    I have concentrated on Walker's pre-and post-war careers,as they seem to set the scene for his involvement with the military.  There are alarm bells ringing all over the place with this man- he is a "funny" and  consequently how he ended up in Intelligence,let alone what he did, is of great interest.

 

     Materials relating to intelligence in the military-on the picking (ie,for want of a better term, the "Special Branch" end of the market) and what he actually did. Records on this type of policing are almost non-existent-whether they were destroyed or whether they were retained is an open question -as they would have been on 100 year closure it is a moot point whether they have survived until recent times-or,indeed, whether they still survive.

    It looks like Walker was called up at the end of 1915 or early 1916- either he was a Derby Scheme recruit who attested under the scheme -probably in December 1915- or he was a conscript under the Military Service Act of February 1916. (The stopping of his diary in the Westminster Archives is the clue)  His assignment to the Hampshires may be accidental rather than planned- conscripts and Derby Scheme men were allocated in the first instance to a variety of regiments with which they had no connection simply because each unit had the capacity with clerks and depots to process the paperwork and the men.

    What is of concern is his late commission -supposedly to the Labour Corps- Not even sure this took place before the end of the war. At that end of the war, men were being commissioned into the Labour Corps because they had skills that were needed in the anticipated clean-up after the war ended. Walker had no such discenible skills and it would be my guess that his commission in the Labour Corps disguised work elsewhere in intelligence. The Labour Corps was large and without regimental traditions and a fixed one-off regimental depot- all the better for an obscure 2 Lt on intelligence work being slipped through. That he was commissioned does to me suggest Ireland but his social background in the Metropolis does hint at something political.

    That said,there are 3 possible sources of information on his "military" career:

 

1)  A request for his service file to the Ministry of Defence- the details will be on the MOD website.

 

2)  Pound to a penny he has a security service file. I can see no record that this has been released. It may be a chimera. BUT an approach to The National Archives when it is open again may prove worthwhile- a dedicated request-by FOI or otherwise-is there for the asking. There is information on security service records and how to get them on the TNA website.

3) A direct approach to the Ministry of Defence by Freedom of Information.  Any surviving paperwork that is sensitive would likely have been held by the branch of the old War Office known as AG3- AG standing for "Advocate-General"- It was the personnel branch and kept a separate registry at some stage of sensitive matters,which,as I have said, may still be around in some form on 100 year closure or even not declared as yet for Public Records purposes.

 

     The start date for the Cayme Press may set the later parameter for his intelligence work, presuming he and the army really parted company (Once in ,always in is a possibility). Thus,1918-c.1923 are the parameters-and that takes his records back to MOD.

 

 

 

[kenf48]

As you have access to Ancestry the entry in the Labour Corps Roll is here

 

It shows the medals were issued on 20. 6. 1922.(IV Issue Voucher 10175) as shown on the mic.  Around 6 million medals were issued it is unsurprising there should be confusion, especially when his service seems so mysterious.

 

The Gazette entry indicates a number of NCOs from different Regiments being promoted on the same day.  

He was an Acting Lance Corporal when commissioned, no unit is shown. Acting  ranks were specifically not engraved on the medals as they were an appointment, again unusual for the Gazette to show Acting ranks for NCOs.

 

To support Mike’s hypothesis when medals were issued they showed the highest rank, ‘provided it was held in a theatre of war’, Ireland was not a theatre of war.  It is interesting the LC Roll shows L/Cpl Intelligence Corps against his name.

 Is this what was on the medals and why they were returned?

Why was he shown as entering a theatre of war (France) on the same date as his promotion?  That is what should be engraved on the medals yet he is on the Hampshire Roll with a number which is also non sequential and the rank of L/Cpl.

 

Perhaps look at the other men in the Gazette who were commissioned to the Labour Corps on the 15 March 1918.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Thanks Ken-  I don't take Ancestry at home-I'm old-fashioned and like to work in libraries-Ancestry and FMP invariably throw up puzzles that mean a resort to the bookshelves,which is my world anyway.

    

      I think the way into this may be via the various rolls and the clues they throw up. I agree fully that the Labour Corps other commissions may be a clue.   The other anomalies I would be looking for:

1)  Not at all sure that he would have done any real service with the Hampshires.

2) The medal rolls for 1922 look a bit sniffy-  I would likewise be looking for others at the same time on that roll and what their backgrounds were.  Just after the 1922 Treaty and the British quitting Ireland. Funny that.   I would be delighted to be proved wrong as I have nothing other than an unsubstantiated hunch that Ireland is in it- but this would not be the first suspect wrong un to be on GWF -I seem to remember that a James Akerman from Walthamstow came up- commission and then service in Ireland-and a somewhat chequered career into the bargain. I think my only ground is a hunch that men recruited as "funnies" for Ireland were quietly commissioned up as an inducement.  

   The 1922 Medal Roll suggests strongly that the Ministry of Defence for an enquiry on his service file is the first port of call.

[TEW]

11 hours ago, kenf48 said:

As you have access to Ancestry the entry in the Labour Corps Roll is here

 

It shows the medals were issued on 20. 6. 1922.(IV Issue Voucher 10175) as shown on the mic.  Around 6 million medals were issued it is unsurprising there should be confusion, especially when his service seems so mysterious.

 

The Gazette entry indicates a number of NCOs from different Regiments being promoted on the same day.  

He was an Acting Lance Corporal when commissioned, no unit is shown. Acting  ranks were specifically not engraved on the medals as they were an appointment, again unusual for the Gazette to show Acting ranks for NCOs.

 

To support Mike’s hypothesis when medals were issued they showed the highest rank, ‘provided it was held in a theatre of war’, Ireland was not a theatre of war.  It is interesting the LC Roll shows L/Cpl Intelligence Corps against his name.

 Is this what was on the medals and why they were returned?

Why was he shown as entering a theatre of war (France) on the same date as his promotion?  That is what should be engraved on the medals yet he is on the Hampshire Roll with a number which is also non sequential and the rank of L/Cpl.

 

Perhaps look at the other men in the Gazette who were commissioned to the Labour Corps on the 15 March 1918.

 

There were in fact two sets of medals of his in existence at the same time. Details of Private Walker, Hampshires should not have ever made it to a medal roll let alone the medals but they did, medals were made and sent out automatically. These were returned under KR 1743 which I've copied from the forum.

 

King's Regulations (1912) para 1743 states that Medals which at the end of 10 years, still remained unclaimed, will be sent to the deputy director of ordnance stores, Royal Dockyard (Medal Branch), Woolwich to be broken up.

 

While the medals to Private Walker were sat in a post office until 1923 as a failed delivery he had in fact applied for his medals as Lt. Walker and received them before the earlier set had been returned by the post office.

 

On face value the LC officers' rolls suggests his first service must have been with Intelligence Corps as L/Cpl. before his commission.

 

Odd thing about Intelligence Corps is that for ordinary ranks this would place you in the 10th Royal Fusiliers and entitled to either Star only, There's no pair roll to ordinary ranks  for Intelligence Corps. Perhaps this is why he shows on Hants. roll for pair?

 

Officers were Intelligence Staff not Corps and are on another roll for the pair.

 

He may have moved from Intelligence Corps to Intelligence Staff but seems to have moved to Labour Corps by the end of the war. There's no subterfuge involved with the roll to Intelligence Staff.

 

TEW

 

 

[tullybrone]

Hi,

 

An interesting topic. Perhaps @corisandemay have an insight about the hypothesis of post  war Intelligence service in Ireland?

 

Steve

[Laura lee]

Thank you all very much this has been very helpful and I now have plenty now for my purposes. (I do have his diary, yes.) Thanks again.

[TEW]

A roll of honour shows he originally enlisted 1908. Cambridge University War List 1914-1918.

TEW

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, TEW said:

A roll of honour shows he originally enlisted 1908. Cambridge University War List 1914-1918.

TEW

 

   Well spotted- I think the date 1908 is his matriculation date at Jesus College-  but interesting to note there may be nothing sinister about it- this is the first time he is listed as being with the Claims Commission.  I have failed to find any surviving records of this body when I have searched before regarding another man who served with it.

 

[corisande]

Post war intelligence operations in Ireland are very difficult to find unless something "happened" like a man being shot, that brought him into the public domain

 

I cannot find his commission to find out if he would have gone to Ireland as an OR or as an officer

 

ORs sent undercover tended to be Irish, in order to fit in

An example of an OR  would be Bryan Fergus Molloy - click for his details - whose real name was Frederick McNulty. If you read his details you can see how he was infiltrated into Dublin

 

Officers tended to be sent, at least until autumn, via a "special appointment" in LG. The British learnt the hard  way that the lads did read the LG and sat on the quayside in Dublin identifying them as they came off the boat

 

One of the many problems is identifying who sent them to Ireland - the British had four or five different operators/departments running agents in Ireland at this time

 

I have lots of files of agents in Ireland, but he is not one of them. That does not mean that he was not there, more that if he were, I have not come across him

 

 

[Guest]

Thanks Corisande-  Ireland was an unfounded suspicion based on a couple of other characters that have popped up on GWF with incomprehensible service records and dodgy backgrounds before and after.  

[corisande]

I have now come across his commission while working on something else

 

1918 Mar 15 . The undermentioned W.Os., N.C.Os.,and men to be temp. 2nd Lts., with effec tfrom dates shown: Actg. Lce.-Corpl. A. E. J. Walker. In Labour Corps

1918 Dec 20. Empld. under Directorate of Requisitions and Hirings (Cl GG).—Temp. 2nd Lt. A. E. J. Walker, Lab.Corps, and to 'be temp. Lt. whilst so empld.,vice temp. Lt. B. T. Carr, Gen. List.

1919 Sep 15 Temp. 2nd Lt. A. E. J. Walker to be temp. Lt. 15 Sept. 1919. In Gazette of 28 April 1920

1920 Feb 25 Lt. A. EL J. Walker relinquishes his commission on completion of service, and retains the rank of Lt.

 

So he did have a "special appointment Class GG. Which would have been a relatively senoir appointment had he been in Ireland ( I am not suggesting that he was in Ireland)

 

And again I have no idea if the "Directorate of Requisitions and Hirings" was used as a front, or whether that was where he worked

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

On 06/03/2021 at 09:37, corisande said:

I have now come across his commission while working on something else

 

1918 Mar 15 . The undermentioned W.Os., N.C.Os.,and men to be temp. 2nd Lts., with effec tfrom dates shown: Actg. Lce.-Corpl. A. E. J. Walker. In Labour Corps

1918 Dec 20. Empld. under Directorate of Requisitions and Hirings (Cl GG).—Temp. 2nd Lt. A. E. J. Walker, Lab.Corps, and to 'be temp. Lt. whilst so empld.,vice temp. Lt. B. T. Carr, Gen. List.

1919 Sep 15 Temp. 2nd Lt. A. E. J. Walker to be temp. Lt. 15 Sept. 1919. In Gazette of 28 April 1920

1920 Feb 25 Lt. A. EL J. Walker relinquishes his commission on completion of service, and retains the rank of Lt.

 

So he did have a "special appointment Class GG. Which would have been a relatively senoir appointment had he been in Ireland ( I am not suggesting that he was in Ireland)

 

And again I have no idea if the "Directorate of Requisitions and Hirings" was used as a front, or whether that was where he worked

 

 

That’s a typical civil labour type employment of the kind that the Labour Corps specialised in and that is always required in times of conflict where a greater interface between military and civilian provisioning develops.  The same thing occurred during WW2 and the lineal successor to the Labour Corps, the Pioneer Corps took on the role.  Men with relevant experience from civilian life were often employed to carry out the work required.

Edited 7 March , 2021 by FROGSMILE