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Need help re: George William Hutton


cherylhutton79

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I hope people don't mind helping me with is as I'm coming to a dead end and not sure what else to try.

 

My great-grandfather George William Hutton died in 1917.  I have found all details relating to his death but nothing with any personal details regarding place and date of birth.

He died as Private 235616 with the 13th Battalion, Yorkshire Regiment but had previously served in South Africa in 1914 with the Q.O. Yorkshire Dragoons Reg. No. 3125

 

I have his marriage certificate to Olive Hazlewood in Selby in 1910 stating he was 28 so birth year is approximately 1882.

I also have him on the 1911 census when we was a fish fryer. It looks like it says his place of birth was Edinburgh but it also looks like this has been amended at some point.

The Soldiers Died in the Great War records on Ancestry have him born in Bridlington but this is text only so I can't see the original.

According to the grave commission he was son of Elizabeth Hudson but even with this info I can't find anything before 1910 when he married.

 

Any insight or advice on where to go from here would be greatly appreciated as other members of my family have also been trying for quite a few years now with no luck.

 

Thank you x

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Welcome to the Forum!

 

Does his marriage certificate tell you anything about his parents?

 

Have you tried the census for 1901 or 1891? He was probably with a parent in 1891 (presuming they were still alive).

 

aim

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Thank you for the welome.

 

Unfortunately no parents recorded on the marriage certificate!!

I need to try again searching for Elizabeth Hudson as haven't found the correct one yet.  I don't have any other info for her either and it's a fairly common name.  I did find her in the 1939 Register but obviously he had been dead for over 20 years by then!

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Yes, the birthplace on the 1911 census looks like Edinburgh NB to me. Fot a long time after the Act of Union linked Scotland and England together as the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Scotland was often known as "North Britain".

 

I looked for a birth certificate from Edinburgh City between 1880 and 1885, and found George Hutton born 1884, ref. 685/1 563, in St. George RD. Remember this is from the ScotlandsPeople website, not The National Archives or the General Record Office in London! No guarantee that this is the birth you want, but if the child was a foundling or otherwise adopted he might not have known his exact birth details!

 

If you can find a Regimental Association or Museum for the Yorkshire Regiment or Queen's Own Yorkshire Dragoons, they might have some birth/parentage/address details you don't know.

 

Hope some of this helps,

 

aim

 

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If the birth that aim found is the right George Hutton, then viewing his birth registration on ScotlandsPeople should give you both the names of his parents, and where and when they were married. I'm not sure if his birth place has actually been amended in the 1911 England census, it looks more to me as though it was originally written in pencil, and then written over in ink.

 

I can't find a George Hutton with the right biographical details in the 1891 England census, but there is a William Hutton, born in Edinburgh and aged 9, so born around 1882 living in Ecclesall Bierlow, Yorkshire, with William aged 22, Margaret aged 33, and two other siblings, Elizabeth aged 7, and Jemima aged 4. The age for the older William has to be wrong, given that he is married to Margaret, but it certainly appears to be 22 on the original form. All the family members were born in Edinburgh, Scotland.

 

In the 1901 England census William Hutton aged 19, is living in the same registration district as in the 1891 census, Ecclesall Bierlow, Yorkshire with William now aged a more respectable 52, so perhaps he was meant to be 44 in the previous census,  Margaret aged 43, Elizabeth aged 17, Jemima aged 14, James aged 9, and Louisa aged 5. As before everybody but the two youngest were born in Scotland, the two youngest were born in Sheffield, Yorkshire.

 

A quick look on ScotlandsPeople for marriages between a William Hutton and a Margaret somebody in the period 1875 to 1885 brings up four potential marriages, two in 1875, one in 1881, and the last in 1885. None in Edinburgh itself, but assuming that George William was the oldest child the 1881 marriage between a William Hutton and a Margaret McDonald in Larbet, Fife, which is not too far to the west of Edinburgh looks promising. Where it gets confusing is trying to trace the births of the children. The only Jemima Hutton born in Scotland in the right time frame had her birth registered in Coupar Angus in 1886, which is nowhere near Edinburgh. And there are, of course, plenty of choices for both George/William and Elizabeth Hutton. 

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For what its worth 

I don't think the 1911 census reads Edinburgh !

I can confirm that the SDGW give his place of birth as Bridlington which may or may not be correct

 

625534128_1911censushutton.JPG.df401bb81f042dedc49e3078b4bec661.JPG

Maybe the forum pals can suggest an alternative transcription of the above  (ignore the Selby bit on the above this is the birth place of his 

wife

 

The CWGC records his mother as Elizabeth Hudson

 

one of his pension documents,  also show now Hudson

1237865760_HuttonGeoW(235616).jpg.6ab988248b130ac33b79222763ce010a.jpg

 

Its possible that Hudson was his original name, and the name Hutton  was the name he originally give when he enlisted (possibility under-age)  

 

worth checking out

 

 his Dragoons service records if they can be found may also yield some clues

 

 

Ray

 

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Thank you everyone for so much hard work - it's overwhelming that you are willing to help so much.  You have all been a big help and my mind has been going round in circles.  The fact that his mother's name was Hudson has always bothered me as I new Olive remarried, to an Albert Hudson and had more children (my grandfather's half siblings).  Having just received Olive and Albert's marriage certificate from a family member I can see there has been a huge mistake made somewhere as Albert's address at the time of marriage is 33 Bolton Street.  This same address is given as George's mother Elizabeth Hudson.

 

So to be clearer - George's Wife Olive Hutton then remarried and became Olive Hudson. And somehow her new mother-in-law was stated on George's death documents as his mother.

 

Therefore I'm back to square one with George's parentage and very confused how a mistake like that could have happened.

 

Anyway I'll leave off searching in Edinburgh for the time being as I think Bridlington might be more likely although its not showing any results there either!  I think the next and best step it to try the regimental associations/ museums as aim suggested so here I go..........

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A quick look at the GRO birth indexes produces the following George William Hutton births in England in the period 1878 to 1886, none of which obviously match the assumed birth year of this particular George William Hutton. There are also several plain old George Hutton births in the narrower time frame of 1881 to 1883, but again there are none jumping out at me in terms of location or other factors.                             

 

HUTTON, GEORGE  WILLIAM  Mother's maiden name FOREMAN  

GRO Reference: 1878  S Quarter in COLCHESTER  Volume 04A  Page 377

HUTTON, GEORGE  WILLIAM  Mother's maiden name BLIFORT  

GRO Reference: 1878  D Quarter in CHESTERFIELD  Volume 07B  Page 703

HUTTON, GEORGE  WILLIAM  Mother's maiden name LOWTHIAN  

GRO Reference: 1879  S Quarter in CARLISLE  Volume 10B  Page 470

HUTTON, GEORGE  WILLIAM  Mother's maiden name NORMAN  

GRO Reference: 1886  D Quarter in PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 179

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7 hours ago, RaySearching said:

For what its worth 

I don't think the 1911 census reads Edinburgh !

I can confirm that the SDGW give his place of birth as Bridlington which may or may not be correct

 

625534128_1911censushutton.JPG.df401bb81f042dedc49e3078b4bec661.JPG

Maybe the forum pals can suggest an alternative transcription of the above  (ignore the Selby bit on the above this is the birth place of his 

wife

 

 

Ray

 

 

 

Carlton, a village near Selby ?   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton,_Selby

 

carlton.jpg.ee2002c5eb5907fe5375208cd5cafd5c.jpg

 

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Hi, Just thought I would update anyone who is interested with what I have discovered.

 

Elizabeth Hutton had at least 2 children - George William (1882ish) and Annie (1884).  Whether this was with a man with the surname Hutton or out of wedlock is yet to be discovered.

 

In 1899 she married Herbert Hudson who through a previous marriage had the following children: John, Albert and Florrie.

 

In 1910 George marries Olive (Hazlewood) and after he died she remarries in 1921 to none other than his step-brother Albert.

 

So both Elizabeth and Olive were Hutton and then Hudson.

 

Its amazing and I still haven't found the answer to George's birth etc. but I'm hoping that a bit more research into Annie - his sister will help.

 

Again thank you to people who have helped and/or continue to help xx

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Hi cherylhutton79,

 

I know that it doesn't address you question at all, but wondered if you knew already, the likely cause of his death?

 

image.png.cd9fba065c24d618a9bf4e06a91e3e24.png

Image sourced from Findmypast

 

If you don't already have one, it looks like British War Graves (link) would be able to send you a digital image of his resting place, on a free of charge basis.

 

Regards

Chris

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HI Chris,

Thank you for that.  I do already have a copy of this as well as the telegram that was sent home to inform his widow and it is also written on there.  A horrible document to read but interesting all the same.

 

Thanks again x

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The 1901 England Census has an Elizabeth Hudson aged 38 and born in Selby, Yorkshire, living with a Herbert Hudson aged 34 living in Sheffield. Children living with them are Annie aged 16, John aged 11, Albert aged 10, and Florrie aged 4. So if George William was living in Selby in 1911, he was living in his mother's home town. Annie's birth place is also given as Selby, Yorkshire, so I suspect we're looking for a George (William) Hutton birth registered in that area in 1882.

 

 

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Hi Tawhiri - yes that is where I am at too.  If you look at the 1911 census Annie is still living there but she is stated as stepdaughter to Herbert.  On the 1939 register for the same address (33 Bolton Street) Elizabeth and Annie are still living there and Annie has reverted to the surname Hutton.

 

As an aside Florrie was witness at both George's and Albert marriages to Olive!!!

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So this I suspect is Annie's birth registration, no sign of a corresponding birth for a George or George William Hutton in Selby in 1882. No mother's maiden name mentioned which would confirm that Annie was illegitimate.

 

HUTTON, ANNIE  ELIZA  Mothers maiden name -  

GRO Reference: 1884  S Quarter in SELBY  Volume 09C  Page 792

 

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I know Elizabeth's name was Hutton before she married Herbert as I found their marriage registration for 1899 I will have to order the certificate to find out if she was a spinster or widower etc.  Then I'll know where the Hutton came from and if Annie and George inherited it from their unknown father or Elizabeth's maiden name.

 

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I think I have just found Elizabeth with the two children in the 1891 England census living in Selby. Ancestry have their family name transcribed as Hulton, but everything seems to fit. Elizabeth Hulton (Hutton) aged 30 and born in Selby, William aged 9 and born in Edinburgh, Scotland, and Eliza Annie aged 7 and born in Selby. All are described as either niece or nephew of the other individual living with them who is William Hulton (Hutton) aged 44. So George William Hutton's birth place in the 1911 census is correct.

 

Edited to add that this is the only William Hutton birth on ScotlandsPeople in Edinburgh City in the period 1881 to 1883. There is also a William Barr Hutton in 1882. There are no George Hutton births in Edinburgh City in the same time frame.

 

HUTTON    WILLIAM     M    1881    685/5 1503      Newington

 

Image sourced from Ancestry:

WRYRG12_3874_3877-0574.jpg

Edited by Tawhiri
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Wow thank you. Do you think this means Elizabeth is the older William's niece and the two children are his great niece and nephew?

Also I wonder if William is actually George William or there was in fact a third child as my cousin suggested when he said he remembers my grandfather referring to an uncle William.

 

Arrgghh to many people using the same names haha

 

Does that say 'chairwoman' as her occupation do you think?

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Just edited my previous post to give you a potential birth for William in Edinburgh City in 1881.

 

11 minutes ago, cherylhutton79 said:

Do you think this means Elizabeth is the older William's niece and the two children are his great niece and nephew?

There's obviously a family connection there somewhere, or possibly older William and Elizabeth are brother and sister.

 

11 minutes ago, cherylhutton79 said:

Also I wonder if William is actually George William or there was in fact a third child as my cousin suggested when he said he remembers my grandfather referring to an uncle William.

I'd go with George William is actually William. It looks as though he was born as William, and known as William for much of his early life, before deciding to add George at some point.

Edited by Tawhiri
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You are amazing Tawhiri - I really appreciate this.  

 

I'm guessing the neice written alongside elzabeth's name may just have been a mistake then and maybe should say sister.

 

Thank you again x

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21 minutes ago, cherylhutton79 said:

 

 

Does that say 'chairwoman' as her occupation do you think?

 

Its Charwomen,  A women employed as a cleaner in a house or office

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Just to throw another little curve ball at you. Not having a great deal of joy with finding George William in the 1901 England census, but in having a look through the military records on Ancestry there is a William Hutton, born on 29 August 1881 in Edinburgh, so fits with the William Hutton birth in Edinburgh that I found, who joins the Royal Navy as a stoker on 3 July 1901. He joined for the standard 12 year engagement, but was invalided out on 8 May 1903. I'm not saying that this is your George William Hutton, but a look at that birth registration on ScotlandsPeople to confirm both his mother's name and date of birth might be interesting. 

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This is getting exciting!!

 

Haven't got on to (George) William yet but looks like Hutton was definitely Elizabeth's maiden name - found her on a few censuses now.  Maybe she was sent away to Edinburgh to have the baby?!!!

Edited by cherylhutton79
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1 hour ago, Tawhiri said:

 I'm not saying that this is your George William Hutton, but a look at that birth registration on ScotlandsPeople to confirm both his mother's name and date of birth might be interesting. 

Nope doesn't look like it's him - how disappointing but by process of elimination........ haha

Screen Shot 2021-02-11 at 17.06.10.png

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