Grenadier Guards Sgt William Davies 14309

[pride of our alley]

Any information regarding Sergeant William Davies..Grenadier Guards 14039..I know that he was in the 2nd Battalion in 1914 and at some point was wounded..I really am interested to know what he was doing specifically in 1918..Was he attached to another Battalion?

Thankyou in advance..Beverley

[George Rayner]

14309 I think

 

George

Courtesy of FWR

First Name:

W

Surname:

Davies

Incident Details:

War Office Daily List No. 5504

Report Date:

28/02/1918

Service Number:

14309

Casualty Listed As:

Prisoner of war in Germany, arrived in Holland for internment.

 

George

[George Rayner]

Also FWR

 

First Name:

W

Surname:

Davies

Report Date:

21/10/1914

Information:

Listed as "Prisoner of War" on the Casualty List issued by the War Office from the 21st October 1914.

Rank:

Sergeant

Service Number:

14309

First Name:

W

Surname:

Davies

Incident Details:

War Office Daily List No.5746

Report Date:

12/12/1918

Rank:

Sergeant

Service Number:

14309

Casualty Listed As:

Released Prisoner of War from Germany, arrived in England

 

Edited 17 January , 2021 by George Rayner

[pride of our alley]

3 minutes ago, George Rayner said:

Also FWR

 

First Name:

W

Surname:

Davies

Report Date:

21/10/1914

Information:

Listed as "Prisoner of War" on the Casualty List issued by the War Office from the 21st October 1914.

Rank:

Sergeant

Service Number:

14309

First Name:

W

Surname:

Davies

Incident Details:

War Office Daily List No.5746

Report Date:

12/12/1918

Rank:

Sergeant

Service Number:

14309

Casualty Listed As:

Released Prisoner of War from Germany, arrived in England

 

Thankyou for your speedy reply George..apologies for not quite understanding but surely he wasnt a prisoner of war for 4 years?

 

[George Rayner]

Apparently so from those records. People who are cleverer than me can possibly find details of it in Red Cross records or family enquiries-I can't get to grips with searches for that!

 

George

[pride of our alley]

2 minutes ago, George Rayner said:

Apparently so from those records. People who are cleverer than me can possibly find details of it in Red Cross records or family enquiries-I can't get to grips with searches for that!

 

George

Many thanks George..much appreciated..x

All the best..Bev

[George Rayner]

Bev may be best to correct his number in the title

 

George

[GWF1967]

14 hours ago, pride of our alley said:

Many thanks George..much appreciated..x

All the best..Bev

B. 8/4/1891 -  Bollington. 

Captured. 11/9/1914 at Viviers. 

Sgt. D’ Coy. - POW in Von Doberitz. Camp. 2/12/1915

NoK. Mrs Davies. 17 Charles St. Windsor. 

Arrived UK. 18/11/1918. 

 

 

Edited 18 January , 2021 by GWF1967

[sotonmate]

War Diary shows two batches of soldiers missing in action,122 on 1 Sep and 77 on 14 Sep 1914. The unit was under great pressure from attack in the period to early October with the under fire ordeal beginning shortly after arrival in zone on 23 August. The unit sailed from Southampton on 12 August 1914 on s.s.CAWDOR CASTLE,arriving in LE HAVRE on 13th.

I would say that there is a distinct chance that,due to lack of casualty data for the period 2 to 11th September,your subject may well have been at large from the missing of 1 September and only captured, date and place given by GWF1967,on 11 September,when the battalion was billeted at MONNES and not in action.

The Diary is downloadable from the National Archives Discovery database for free when you sign in there. Reference WO95/1342/1.

I see that he returned to the UK on s.s.WILLOCHRA on 18  November 1918.

Edited 17 January , 2021 by sotonmate

[pride of our alley]

2 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

B. 8/4/1891 -  Bollington. 

Captured. 11/9/1914 at Viviers. 

Sgt. D’ Coy. 4th Battalion - POW in Von Doberitz. Camp. 

NoK. Mrs Davies. 17 Charles St. Windsor. 

Arrived UK. 18/11/1918. 

 

 

Many thanks for the information..xx

[pride of our alley]

1 hour ago, sotonmate said:

War Diary shows two batches of soldiers missing in action,122 on 1 Sep and 77 on 14 Sep 1914. The unit was under great pressure from attack in the period to early October with the under fire ordeal beginning shortly after arrival in zone on 23 August. The unit sailed from Southampton on 12 August 1914 on s.s.CAWDOR CASTLE,arriving in LE HAVRE on 13th.

I would say that there is a distinct chance that,due to lack of casualty data for the period 2 to 11th September,your subject may well have been at large from the missing of 1 September and only captured, date and place given by GWF1967,on 11 September,when the battalion was billeted at MONNES and not in action.

The Diary is downloadable from the National Archives Discovery database for free when you sign in there. Reference WO95/1342/1.

I see that he returned to the UK on s.s.WILLOCHRA on 18  November 1918.

Many thanks for the information..much obliged..Bev..x

[PRC]

There is a card for him on the International Committee of the Red Cross site but it only deals with his repatriation.

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/763784/3/2/

 

The level of infomation that came through on the 1914 reports from the German side was frequently woeful - so there may be more buried away in their impenetrable labyrinth but it will be a needle in a haystack to find it.

 

Paul Nixon has details of him on his list of men entitled to receive the Princess Mary Christmas box from 1914 but had to wait until after they were released in order to receive it.  Unfortunately you have to purchase the whole list of all PoWs at £25, but it a transcription of an official list sent to Buckingham Palace, and is said to include date of capture.

https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/p/1914-pows.html

 

And his Army Service numbers site shows that service number 14309 would have been issued between the 2nd February 1909 (14220) and the 17th February 1910 (14648).

https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/01/grenadier-guards.html

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

[FROGSMILE]

He might have carried on serving after the war, as he was a regular soldier.  It’s surprising how many did.  Those that didn’t tended to be men broken down physically and or mentally by their lengthy period as POWs.  If he did continue it’s quite likely that his service record might survive.  Many Guards records did anyway as they were not stored with the other regiments in the London Docks warehouse bombed in 1941.

Edited 18 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[pride of our alley]

1 hour ago, PRC said:

There is a card for him on the International Committee of the Red Cross site but it only deals with his repatriation.

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/763784/3/2/

 

The level of infomation that came through on the 1914 reports from the German side was frequently woeful - so there may be more buried away in their impenetrable labyrinth but it will be a needle in a haystack to find it.

 

Paul Nixon has details of him on his list of men entitled to receive the Princess Mary Christmas box from 1914 but had to wait until after they were released in order to receive it.  Unfortunately you have to purchase the whole list of all PoWs at £25, but it a transcription of an official list sent to Buckingham Palace, and is said to include date of capture.

https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/p/1914-pows.html

 

And his Army Service numbers site shows that service number 14309 would have been issued between the 2nd February 1909 (14220) and the 17th February 1910 (14648).

https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/01/grenadier-guards.html

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

Very grateful to you..I am overwhelmed once again by the help received on this wonderful site..Bev..x

[pride of our alley]

20 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

He might have carried on serving after the war, as he was a regular soldier.  It’s surprising how many did.  Those that didn’t tended to be men broken down physically and or mentally by their lengthy period as POWs.  If he did continue it’s quite likely that his service record might survive.  Many Guards records did anyway as they were not stored with the other regiments in had London Docks warehouse bombed in 1941.

Thankyou for this and for the bit of information regarding the records..all the best..Bev

3 hours ago, George Rayner said:

Bev may be best to correct his number in the title

 

George

Thanks George..I would if I knew how?!

[pride of our alley]

3 hours ago, sotonmate said:

War Diary shows two batches of soldiers missing in action,122 on 1 Sep and 77 on 14 Sep 1914. The unit was under great pressure from attack in the period to early October with the under fire ordeal beginning shortly after arrival in zone on 23 August. The unit sailed from Southampton on 12 August 1914 on s.s.CAWDOR CASTLE,arriving in LE HAVRE on 13th.

I would say that there is a distinct chance that,due to lack of casualty data for the period 2 to 11th September,your subject may well have been at large from the missing of 1 September and only captured, date and place given by GWF1967,on 11 September,when the battalion was billeted at MONNES and not in action.

The Diary is downloadable from the National Archives Discovery database for free when you sign in there. Reference WO95/1342/1.

I see that he returned to the UK on s.s.WILLOCHRA on 18  November 1918.

Thankyou for your reply..very much appreciated..all the best..Bev

[FROGSMILE]

6 hours ago, pride of our alley said:

Thankyou for this and for the bit of information regarding the records..all the best..Bev

Thanks George..I would if I knew how?!

Until recently the Guards military record sheets were stored in regimental archives at their individual HQs, but not long ago the decision was taken to send them to properly controlled atmospheric storage at the Army Personnel Centre, Kentigern House, Glasgow, Scotland. https://www.vsc.co.uk/downloads/military-personnel-department-contact.pdf

Edited 18 January , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Michelle Young]

8 hours ago, pride of our alley said:

Thankyou for this and for the bit of information regarding the records..all the best..Bev

Thanks George..I would if I knew how?!

 

 

Title edited

[tullybrone]

12 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

B. 8/4/1891 -  Bollington. 

Captured. 11/9/1914 at Viviers. 

Sgt. D’ Coy. 4th Battalion - POW in Von Doberitz. Camp. 

NoK. Mrs Davies. 17 Charles St. Windsor. 

Arrived UK. 18/11/1918. 

 

 

Apologies if I’ve missed something up thread but are you sure he was in 4th CG at the time he was taken POW?

 

They weren’t in France during 1914. They were the recently formed Reserve Battalion in England.

 

Steve

Edited 18 January , 2021 by tullybrone

[GWF1967]

2 hours ago, tullybrone said:

Apologies if I’ve missed something up thread but are you sure he was in 4th CG at the time he was taken POW?

 

They weren’t in France during 1914. They were the recently formed Reserve Battalion in England.

 

Steve

Mea Culpa - His Red Cross record lists 4th Battalion, this it seems was the unit he was discharged from. I’ve edited my original post. 

[pride of our alley]

8 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Until recently the Guards military record sheets were stored in regimental archives at their individual HQs, but not long ago the decision was taken to send them to properly controlled atmospheric storage at the Army Personnel Centre, Kentigern House, Glasgow, Scotland. https://www.vsc.co.uk/downloads/military-personnel-department-contact.pdf

Thankyou!..x

6 hours ago, Michelle Young said:

 

 

Title edited

Thankyou..xx

[sotonmate]

Here the direct link to the War Diary for 2nd Battalion Grenadier Guards:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7351962