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Entitled to Clasp & Roses?


snailybailey
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Hi, I have received some amazingly helpful responses to my previous post about the following casualty:

 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/263106/ALBERT THOMAS BAKER/

 

He landed in France on 6th Nov 1914 and received the 1914 Star but I am trying to confirm whether he was entitled to the clasp? Would the 1st/1st Hertfordshire Regiment have been 'under fire' at this time? I have uploaded the medal roll for the star and many of his comrades who embarked on the same day claimed it?

Any advice gratefully received!

 

 

MIC.jpg

Medal Roll 1914 Star.jpg

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As per the Long  Long Trail, it was necessary to apply for the clasp and roses. 

 

https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/the-british-campaign-medals-for-the-great-war/

 

 

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18 hours ago, snailybailey said:

He landed in France on 6th Nov 1914 and received the 1914 Star but I am trying to confirm whether he was entitled to the clasp? Would the 1st/1st Hertfordshire Regiment have been 'under fire' at this time? I have uploaded the medal roll for the star and many of his comrades who embarked on the same day claimed it?

Hello again - I recognise this chap!

Still puzzling you eh?

Why not try the War Diary of the 1st Hertfordshires https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7351966

Freely downloaded from the National Archives [after a free registration, which can be done at the same time as ordering]

:-) M

Edited by Matlock1418
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Guess this proves he was entitled?

 

Screenshot 2021-01-17 at 19.58.45.png

Screenshot 2021-01-17 at 20.01.00.png

Screenshot 2021-01-17 at 20.01.45.png

Edited by snailybailey
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5 hours ago, snailybailey said:

Would the 1st/1st Hertfordshire Regiment have been 'under fire' at this time? I have uploaded the medal roll for the star and many of his comrades who embarked on the same day claimed it?

Any advice gratefully received!

 

Hello,

In February and March 1919, many soldiers were demobilised to Class Z. At this time, some soldiers would have been medically examined for the first time in a while, and some would have been given an honourable medical discharge. Certain soldiers may well have wanted to turn their back on army life, and to get back to civvy street.

In October 1919, the distinction of the clasp came into being. Soldiers who had been in particular units could apply for the clasp. The units in particular were listed in Appendix A to Army Order 361. Many of the men that were alive and were eligible in October 1919 were no longer in the army. 

You may find the following thread of interest



So, in answer to your question, yes 1/1st Hertfordshire Regiment are on the list of units, as referred to in Paragraph 3 of Army Order 361 of 1919.

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Some sources suggest that whilst as many as 360,000 men were entitled to the clasp, given that it had to be applied, the take-up was around 150,000 at the start of the 1920s. As an alternative to going through army bureaucracy, it was possible to buy said clasp from a tailors, and to have it attached to a 1914 Star. This latter approach was the path of least resistance.

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Yeah, I had a group once that had a slide-on version 

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You'll see from your medal roll that two men didn't apply until 1936 & 1940.

 

Given that he died before the Oct 1919 date it would have needed an application from his NOK for C&R.

TEW

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What’s the significance of the Oct 1919 date?

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54 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

In October 1919, the distinction of the clasp came into being. Soldiers who had been in particular units could apply for the clasp. The units in particular were listed in Appendix A to Army Order 361. Many of the men that were alive and were eligible in October 1919 were no longer in the army. 

 

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38 minutes ago, TEW said:

You'll see from your medal roll that two men didn't apply until 1936 & 1940.

 

Given that he died before the Oct 1919 date it would have needed an application from his NOK for C&R.

TEW


Given that there is no comment in the remarks column of the medal roll, it appears the family were not aware of the existence of the clasp, and that the NoK did not make an application for said clasp.

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