Help required - trying to solve family mystery and identify this soldier (Yorkshire connection)

[helpjpl]

2 hours ago, The Inspector said:

Hi All,

David Porter Jones, the Wharfedale Union Workhouse Master, had a very chequered history! Divorce proceedings brought by his first wife, Martha , nee Forman, show that he had numerous affairs at numerous workhouses up and down the country. Emily Currie worked at the Infirmary/Workhouse, DNA shows there is a link to the Currie family. PBS has told us it looks as though it could be to Joseph but perhaps the link is to Emily!

 

The marriage of Emily Currie and Harry Watson Pullan was registered Jul-Sep 1911 at Wharfedale (less than a mile from Otley).

 

In the 1939 Register they were living in Aireborough, Yorkshire.

 

JP

Edited 3 February , 2021 by helpjpl
typo: Pullan (not Pullen)

[The Inspector]

Hi All,

As reposted by JP

The photo I posted came from the below list......with lots of ?????? Looking for any connection.

4 hours ago, helpjpl said:

 

He may be here:

action=search&attributeset=134&visibility=1&sort_field=title&sort_order=asc&a[soldier_surname][v]=&a[soldier_forenames][v]=&a[soldier_rank][v]=&a[soldier_army_number][v]=&q=Military+Medal&page=1

 

JP

I'm sure the answer will come from the DNA returns. Having looked again at David Porter Jones and his history if I was searching for myself I would be looking for DNA results for his 3 children from his first marriage. If they come up with a match to the Currie family then I think that will be the answer to Ronald's parentage.

Regards Barry.

[helpjpl]

40 minutes ago, The Inspector said:

Hi All,

As reposted by JP

The photo I posted came from the below list......with lots of ?????? Looking for any connection.

I'm sure the answer will come from the DNA returns. Having looked again at David Porter Jones and his history if I was searching for myself I would be looking for DNA results for his 3 children from his first marriage. If they come up with a match to the Currie family then I think that will be the answer to Ronald's parentage.

Regards Barry.

 

Emily married Harry Watson Pullan in 1911. Ronald was born in 1913.

 

See my previous post:

The marriage of Emily Currie and Harry Watson Pullan was registered Jul-Sep 1911 at Wharfedale (less than a mile from Otley).

In the 1939 Register they were living in Aireborough, Yorkshire.

 

JP

Edited 3 February , 2021 by helpjpl
typo: Pullan (not Pullen)

[TEW]

12 minutes ago, helpjpl said:

 

Emily married Harry Watson Pullen in 1911. Ronald was born in 1913.

 

See my previous post:

The marriage of Emily Currie and Harry Watson Pullen was registered Jul-Sep 1911 at Wharfedale (less than a mile from Otley).

In the 1939 Register they were living in Aireborough, Yorkshire.

 

JP

 

Good find, the one I couldn't find! Doesn't fit the time frame for my theory though, so that's that idea gone!

 

Register has Harry W Pullan? Why does her sister call her Mrs E Watson, suspect we'll never know.

 

Pte. Harry Watson Pullan.
Born 1890.
Served in Machine Gun Corps.
Service no. 11221.
Enlisted 31/5/1915, discharged 17/4/1919, wounded.
Received Silver War Badge.
Died 1971

 

TEW

[helpjpl]

8 minutes ago, TEW said:

 

Good find, the one I couldn't find! Doesn't fit the time frame for my theory though, so that's that idea gone!

 

Register has Harry W Pullan? Why does her sister call her Mrs E Watson, suspect we'll never know.

 

TEW

 

Sorry, Pullan it is - I'll edit my previous posts.

 

JP 

[The Inspector]

Hi JP and all,

Yes I have seen your post. Harry Watson PULLAN is readily traceable to  5 The Green. 

The fact that Emily Currie was married doesn't mean  she couldn't be the mother of Ronald Smith Hopton. The marriage cert. for Harry W Pullan, Wharfedale, 9a, 314 should give  the address etc. presumably Rose Cottage. If Emily was the mother then why the cover up on the birth cert.?

Emily Currie and Joseph Currie, brother and sister, will both have the same DNA so Pshelley may have jumped to the wrong conclusion.

The question still remains as to why Ronald was born in the Workhouse and who are his parents. There definitely is a Currie connection.

There is another possibility of course! Still searching ........

Regards Barry

 

[Bob Davies]

6 hours ago, helpjpl said:

He may be here

Thank you helpjpl, that has saved me a lot of time :-) The list is already available. Regards, Bob.

[ilkley remembers]

This is a photograph of Harry Watson Pullen of Yeadon and is taken from a newspaper clipping held by the Aireborough Historical Society and although it is undated is probably taken from either the Wharfedale Observer or Ilkley Free Press. The quality isn't brilliant but it could be the man in the photograph.

 

 

https://www.aireboroughhistoricalsociety.co.uk/memories/1914-1918-aireborough-boys-part-13.aspx#prettyPhoto

 

 

Edited 3 February , 2021 by ilkley remembers

[BarbaraG]

2 minutes ago, ilkley remembers said:

This is a photograph of Harry Watson Pullen of Yeadon and is taken from a newspaper clipping held by the Aireborough Historical Society and although it is undated is probably taken from either the Wharfedale Observer or Ilkley Free Press. The quality isn't brilliant but it could be the man in the photograph.

 

 

https://www.aireboroughhistoricalsociety.co.uk/memories/1914-1918-aireborough-boys-part-13.aspx#prettyPhoto

 

 

 

Could someone put images head and shoulders side by side?

would the chin with’dimple’ have become less pronounced?

[TEW]

HW Pullan seems to only have service with Northumberland Fusiliers and MGC. Not on the incomplete list of MM on ancestry.

Could have a brother?

TEW

[The Inspector]

I

Hi All, No doubt someone can do better than me!

Regards Barry

[BarbaraG]

Thank you - well the ears seem similar 

Edited 3 February , 2021 by BarbaraG

[RaySearching]

As TEW pointed out earlier

Harry Watson Pullen served as Pte 11221 MGC /  Pte 22400 Northumberland Fusiliers 

enlisted 31/5/15 discharged 17/4/19 (SWB) he was not awarded the MM

He is not the soldier in the photo

 

Ray 

 

Edit incorrect info removed

 

Edited 3 February , 2021 by RaySearching

[RaySearching]

The list of MM recipients  who were awarded the M.M  has grown 

Entering the Leicestershire Reg in the search field in  British Army Recipients of the Military Medal, 1914-1920 on Ancestry  LINK

fetches up 645 soldiers of the Leicestershire Reg who were awarded the M.M  

listed by surname alphabetically  

 

Ray

 

 

[TEW]

From somewhere I can't now track down I had it in mind the ancestry MM list is not complete.

 

Another point with this is illustrated with following example.

 

Cecil R Pullen 193181 RE is on the ancestry list with only those details. His MIC shows previous service as 15644 Worcester.

 

Man in photo may have been awarded the MM while with another unit and then transferred to Leicestershires.

 

TEW

 

 

[RaySearching]

31 minutes ago, TEW said:

Man in photo may have been awarded the MM while with another unit and then transferred to Leicestershires.

 

Tew

point well made and noted

 

Ray

[The Inspector]

Hi All,

Whatever we think the DNA result shows that there is a Currie Family connection, just who it relates to will probably come to light as the data base increases.

 

This is getting really interesting! The Leicestershire soldier is none of the men in the photo so far although I think the similarity of Harry W Pullen is remarkable..

pshelley tells us he has a Common Ancestor in, he believes, Joseph Currie. He is Emily's younger brother and they lived at Rose Cottage. 

Ronald Smith's mother "Hannah Smith" has not been found, if in fact she ever existed, I doubt it.

The name "Emily" has been scratched through on the birth cert, Her address is "Rose Cottage"

We all agree that New Hall is the workhouse and B.H.Jones the Occupier was the Matron and Emily Currie worked there in 1911.

It would appear that the Currie family were Catholics, (James the father's prison record) ,perhaps James made Emily leave the house when she became pregnant and she had nowhere to go except to ask her boss for help and therefore was taken in at the workhouse.. 

Harry W(Watson ?) Pullan's date of birth is given as 17.1.1889 on the 1939 register at 5 The Green, Aireborough.. A birth cert for a Harry Pullan 1st qtr 1889, Bradford, West Yorks is 9b,226.. As yet have not traced his parents. 

Still looking into the activities of the Workhouse Master, David Porter Jones.

Regards Barry

 

 

 

[RaySearching]

55 minutes ago, The Inspector said:

Still looking into the activities of the Workhouse Master, David Porter Jones.

 

interesting reading

Ray

 

Edit adding Ancestry LINK

Edited 3 February , 2021 by RaySearching

[The Inspector]

Hi Ray and all,

Just been listing his 3 children from the above papers. As previously posted he is shown in 1891 as being a widower, a lie, his Decree Nisi was granted 10.5.1889 and Final Decree 26.11.1889. As you have also found out, very interesting reading!

The plot thickens.

EDIT...1891 census His ex Martha also describes herself as a" widow" living with the 3 children and her mother.

Regards Barry

Edited 3 February , 2021 by The Inspector

[The Inspector]

Hi All,

Clarification.....

Harry Watson Pullan married Emily Currie 1911.

Harry Watson Pullan  birth reg'd 1890 1st qtr, Wharfedale, 9a, 153.

Harry Watson Pullan's mother was Agnes Pullan who married William Henry Watson b.6.8.1869 Rudston, Bridlington, Yorks 4th qtr 1890,Wharfedale, 9a, 273. Served RN 134158.

James Watson, Harry's brother was born 6.4.1894 and married one Ida Langley on 11.9.20 at St.Andrew's Church, Yeadon. Father William Henry Watson.

A witness at the marriage was Harry Watson Pullan who signed the register. The address for James is 7 Chapel Lane, Yeadon. in 1915 Agnes Watson is listed at 7 Chapel Lane also owning 10 Swain Hill St., Yeadon. which concurs with the 1911 census for the family. Name of Watson.

It appears that the family was in the habit of not using the Pullan surname and went by the name of Watson which explains why Joseph Currie's army record refers to a Mrs. Watson. Agnes's mother was Annie Elizabeth Holmes and the family frequently missed out the Pullan surname, using Holmes!

???? Can someone superimpose Harry W Pullan's photo on the OP pic. I think it may be him....or I need new specs! As TEW posted previously the "soldier" could have been transferred to the Leicestershire Regt after receiving the MM.

Regards Barry

14 hours ago, RaySearching said:

 

Tew

point well made and noted

 

Ray

 

14 hours ago, TEW said:

Man in photo may have been awarded the MM while with another unit and then transferred to Leicestershires.

 

TEW

 

 

 

Edited 4 February , 2021 by The Inspector

[dink999]

Does this help?

 

 

Dave

[TEW]

But, Harry Watson/Pullan has nothing to link him to Leicestershires.

TEW

[RaySearching]

1 hour ago, The Inspector said:

Can someone superimpose Harry W Pullan's photo on the OP pic. I think it may be him....or I need new specs! As TEW posted previously the "soldier" could have been transferred to the Leicestershire Regt after receiving the MM.

 

Barry

With respect there is no record of Harry Watson Pullan having served with the Leicestershire Regiment or receiving the MM

so the soldier in the photo is not Harry Watson Pullan     (unless he was wearing   a uniform which was not his /unlikley)

 

Harry's MIC

 

 

Pullan   SWB  Discharged from the MGC 17/4/19

 

Harry W Pullan 

pension doc  applying for a grant    M.G.C

 

 

reverse

 

Harry Watson Pullan born 13th Jan 1890  died April 1971 Bradford

 

His MIC shows the first unit Harry served with in the theatre of war as the MGC

 

His SWB record  records that he was discharged from the Machine Gun Corps

 

 

 

1919   Harry Watson Pullan + Emily are residing at 30 Town Street Yeadon

1920     ditto

1921      ditto

1925      ditto

1929   Arrested

1934      Harry Watson Pullan + Emily are residing at 30 Town Street Yeadon

1936        ditto

1939        Harry Watson Pullan + Emily are residing at 5 The Green Yeardon

1946        ditto    

 

Arrested and discharged

                      

Ray

[ilkley remembers]

41 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

Arrested and discharged

 

Pullan was known as the one armed bookmaker and had already served 2 months imprisonment earlier in 1929 for assaulting police officers. I not sure when he lost the arm, it is possible, I suppose, that this may have happened during the war.

[RaySearching]

Just a thought 

We have  an Emily Currie who wed Harry W Pullen in 1911

 

But we  have no evidence (or do we) that the Emily Currie who wed Harry W Pullen in 1911 was the daughter of James and Ada Currie

 

If not, then it opens other lines of  possibility's

 

Ray