Rumpler brought down by TEL's Arabs

[stevenbecker]

Mates,

 

Do you have details on the bring down of a Rumpler around the 4 Feb 1918

 

I record these as crew

 

Emin Nihat Efendi (Sözeri)    Pilot Airforce 1st Aircraft Company 6-15 to 7th Aircraft Company Caucasus 6-17 to 3rd Aircraft Company 11-17 remain in Maan 12-17 to 5th Aircraft Company 10-18     Sgt to Lt (shown Lt)    PoW 4-2-18 by Arabs under TEL (check me)?    (1893- 1978) War Academy the Harbiye: Engeneer Lt 1914 to airforce 1915 Medina shown in Albatross C3 (AK53) with Yakup Sami on Caucasian front 3rd Army 1917 shown awarded Silver War Medal when Albatross C3 (AK53) with Yakup Sami (O) for his attack on Gernir 8-8-17 to Maan 1917 shown 3rd Aircraft Company at Maan 8-17 reported Rumpler C1 (R1837/15) with Sgt Zeki brought down by TEL Arabs forces PoW 4-2-18 shown arrived at 5th Aircraft Company with AEG C4 (7108) 10-18 post war Maltepe incident War of Independance later Maj Gen retired 1946 to Governer of Diyarbakir during 1950-52 (spelling in Ole Nikoljsen)
 

Ismail Zeki Efendi    Pilot Airforce 3rd Aircraft Company 11-17    Sgt to Lt    PoW 4-2-18 by Arabs under TEL died 9-9-23    (1898 died 9-9-23) Trained 1916 Medina graduated from Yesilköy Pilot training school in 1916 shown Sgt at Maan 8-17 reported Rumpler C1 (R1837/15) with Lt Nihat reported shot down by Arab forces under TEL 4-2-18 later joined the national forces of Mustafa Kemal Pasha War of Independance (spelling in Ole Nikoljsen)
 

Cheers

 

S.B

[domsim]

Hi Steve

Zeki at least ended up with X Flight, the RFC unit at Aqaba  where a copy of his preliminary interogation was lodged in the Squadron war diary (see attached from the National Archives at Kew). He was brought down at Uneiza which is a station on the Hejaz railway north of Ma'an and also an old Muslim castle/caravanserai on the Haj route from Damascus to Mecca. I worked on a survey project in the area in the late 1990's and we surveyed the castle and some of the trenches the Turkish Army had dug to protect the station. I did a load of background on this at Kew but it came to nothing.

 

all the best

Dom.

[Guest]

Mate,

 

Thank you, it mentions a number of interesting items.

 

I did wonder who was the pilot and who the Observer on that plane he does not mention his obsver?

 

I did see a report that mentioned Emin Nihat Efendi, but another report shows he turned up at 5th Aircraft Company with AEG C4 (7108) 10-18, so its possibly he was not the right man or a different men by the same name, common in Ottoman units to have more then one man named the same.

 

I have the names of most of the 3rd Company, but show few at Maan, most of the men were at Medina, but before the break up of the company.

 

The 3rd Company was broken up between Medina and Amman to cover the rail line and at Maan early 1918 had 4x Rumpler C1 (R1150 R1837 R1847 R2626) , but like all Ottoman Companies serviceability was poor, so it was interesting he said they had plenty of spares and petrol?

 

The Austrian pilot is possibly

 

Souchin or Suchin Max    Observer to pilot 9-17 Airforce 4th Aircraft Company 9-17 to 7-18 shown with 9th Aircraft Company 1918    Cpl to Sgt / Çavus        Istanbul based at Yesilköy - said to be Austrian in Ottoman Service shown Cpl (Pilot) graduated from Yesilköy Training School in 1916 shown unhurt when Albatros B1 (A18) crashed at Silifke 9-17 shown in last combat in Halberstadt DV (HK31) 10-18 possibly not Austrian but a Turkish Jew (spelling in Ole Nikoljsen)
 

As far as I am aware he never went down to Maan to Join 3rd Air Company, but that 4th Company arrived around Amman early 1918 and was lost during the retreat from Amman near Mafraq when the train they were on was captured 21 Sept 1918. Interesting most of the remainder of 3rd Company was also on that train? So cross over between 3rd and 4th Company at Amman is possible.

 

Yes the 4th Company was a mixed German and Ottoman company who had been at Mersina (Silifke) near Adana Gulf of Alexandretta between 1916-18, but the 3rd Company was an all Ottoman company, no Germans/Christians were in this unit, as it was first deployed to Medina.

 

Maan was a major town then as now and was between Amman and Akaba covering the rail line south. Large Ottoman forces were in the area which shows

 

Aug 1918 Allied reports Maan area 2Bn/73rd Regt 1Bn/139th Regt 1Bn&4Bn/146th Regt 3Bn/178th Regt + Maan Jandarm 123rd Mg Co (1050 men 28 Mgs) - Jerdun area Mule Mtn Regt 2Bn/75th Regt 2Bn/146th Regt 2Bn/161st Regt (1050 men 10 Mgs) - Kalaat Area 3Bn/73rd Regt 1Bn/75th Regt (600 men 8 Mgs) - Menzil area 3Bn/75th Regt 2Bn&3Bn/150th Regt 1Bn/152nd Regt 25th Div Cav Sqn 46th Div Cav Sqn (600 men 200 cav 34 Mgs)

 

The Composite (Müretteb or Mürattep) Regt Security force for railway lines in Arabia possibly from Amman to Maan area? shown in 1916/17 1st & 3Bn's 55th Rgt to Mar 1917 1st & 3rd Bn's 162nd Regt the Maan Moblie Jandarma Bn + Artillery and Cavalry later Composite (Müretteb or Mürattep) Regt (3/151st 1/152nd 1/150th)

 

Cheers

S.B

Edited 15 January , 2021 by stevebecker

[domsim]

Hi Steve

 

Thanks for the extra info. My impression of the Ottoman air cover was that as attrition of the planes and pilots took place over time that the squadrons based at Ma'an and Amman and smaller station at Qatrana (Kutrani) were mixed and merged on a very fluid basis.

 

We did some work on the outskirts of Ma'an- a lot of interesting Roman stuff there and again recorded a fairly extensive set of Ottoman defences, based around the station. This was all looked at by the later Great Arab Revolt Project-we couldn't get anybody interested in it a decade earlier! Ma'an is a great place- a real frontier town feel to it and still some fantastic, beautiful gardens on the east side of the town with some very friendly and generous people who showed us around.

 

all the best

Dom.

Edited 18 January , 2021 by domsim

[Guest]

Dom,

 

No worries mate.

 

The four aircraft at Ma'an show

 

1837/15 crashed 4 Feb 1918

1847/15 written off as US (unserviceable) May 1918

1150/15 was destoryed at Ma'an 8 May 1918

2626/15  written off as US (unserviceable) Aug 1918

Cheers

S.B

Edited 18 January , 2021 by stevebecker