michaela Posted 14 January , 2021 Share Posted 14 January , 2021 I am trying to locate any war record relating to James Green. I have found a dependants Pension Record for him issued to Thomas Green of 30 St Cuthbert St, Burnley. In the 1939 Register, James is a patient at Lancaster Mental Hospital, giving his occupation as ‘ex soldier’. I know he did serve briefly in 1899, in the 3rd East Lancs, 9705. Presumably, the pension form ties in to service during WW1? I have a subscription with Ancestry, but nothing seems relevant. Can anyone help? Much appreciated, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 14 January , 2021 Share Posted 14 January , 2021 Where do you get the #24029 number from with the East Lancs ? The medal records seems to show that East Lancs allocated #24029 to a William Wright. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 14 January , 2021 Share Posted 14 January , 2021 17 minutes ago, michaela said: I have found a dependants Pension Record for him issued to Thomas Green of 30 St Cuthbert St, Burnley Hi, Is that a source for his regiment and service number? It’s just that the National Archive catalogue does have a Medal Index Card for a 24029 East Lancashire Regiment, but that is in the name of a William Wright. In case it was a transcription error I also checked out the MiC via my free account on Ancestry and they have indexed it the same, and looking at it there is no obvious room for mis-interpretation. There is no MiC match at the NA for a 24029 Green Clutching at straws a bit but there is a TF/2409 James A Green, Royal West Kent Regiment. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaela Posted 14 January , 2021 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2021 8 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said: Where do you get the #24029 number from with the East Lancs ? The medal records seems to show that East Lancs allocated #24029 to a William Wright. Craig The regiment number was on the pension record from fold3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 14 January , 2021 Share Posted 14 January , 2021 Try 241129 James Green, was 5th Battalion East Lancashire Regiment when he was medically discharged in May 1918 to a home address of 30 Cuthbert Street, Burnley. There are surviving service records. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaela Posted 14 January , 2021 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2021 Oh wow, terrific thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 14 January , 2021 Share Posted 14 January , 2021 Yes, I've just looked at what it shows on the pension records. The pension cards and ledgers, being clerical records, are full of transcription errors. That particular number (unlike some others) was not one which could be issued twice. I do wonder however if it's a mangled Territorial Force number from 5th bn - who used the range 240001 to 265000 240001 265000 5 East Lancs Regt https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/a-soldiers-life-1914-1918/renumbering-of-the-territorial-force-in-1917/renumbering-the-tf-infantry-in-1917/ Craig EDIT: 2 minutes ago, PRC said: Try 241129 James Green, was 5th Battalion East Lancashire Regiment when he was medically discharged in May 1918 to a home address of 30 Cuthbert Street, Burnley. There are surviving service records. Cheers, Peter Peter got there just before me !. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaela Posted 14 January , 2021 Author Share Posted 14 January , 2021 Thank you. Having looked at the documents, it says he went to Lancaster Asylum after discharge. Considering he was receiving a pension, do you think War duties were responsible for his sickness? Would shell shock be mentioned in these papers if that was the case. It sounds like he remained at the hospital until his death in 1964. He is buried in Burnley. It also says he was in Egypt from June 1916. What would that have entailed? Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaela Posted 16 January , 2021 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2021 This is one of the papers amongst his discharge documents. Can anyone please help me decipher it? It may contain a medical diagnosis. I have picked up a few words, aggravated, assessed, treatment. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 16 January , 2021 Share Posted 16 January , 2021 His pension was because his disability was caused or aggravated by service. The silver war badge records show he was discharged sick.https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FSILVERWAR%2FBADGES%2F355272 His records show he was in Netley War Hospital (and Lord Derby Hospital) pre-discharge so it appears there were some sort of neurological issues. His address after discharge was to Lancaster Asylum.https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f007407979%2f00166&parentid=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f7407979%2f9%2f150 At the time the war gratuity was paid in he was in an asylum. The effects register usually only dealt with deceased men but also dealt with those in asylums.https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=syT1360&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=60506&cp=0&_F8007A65=241129&new=1&rank=1&uidh=784&redir=false&msT=1&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=2&h=706535&recoff=&ml_rpos=3&queryId=79e3f8ee553eee093e48141bdfa9e14a Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaela Posted 16 January , 2021 Author Share Posted 16 January , 2021 Thanks Craig. Sad to see the word ‘insane’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaela Posted 18 January , 2021 Author Share Posted 18 January , 2021 Another question. I have just downloaded a WW1 pension ledger for James Green. On the left there’s a series of letters and numbers, presumably the numbers are dates. What do the letters refer to? Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 18 January , 2021 Share Posted 18 January , 2021 10 minutes ago, michaela said: I have just downloaded a WW1 pension ledger for James Green. On the left there’s a series of letters and numbers, presumably the numbers are dates. What do the letters refer to? Many thanks Craig is 'Mr Pensions' but as he doesn't seem on line I'll try and give a bit of an answer. These are administration actions [& dated as you correctly interpreted] At top it look like a possible application to / sent to "HQ for file" And in the middle "Award" - we don't know all of them [yet?] FYI: the other Pension cards appear to offer up another Regimental No. of: 3285 [also has an address of 3 Cuthbert Street, Burnley - but this could be a error I suppose] :-) M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaela Posted 18 January , 2021 Author Share Posted 18 January , 2021 24 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said: Craig is 'Mr Pensions' but as he doesn't seem on line I'll try and give a bit of an answer. These are administration actions [& dated as you correctly interpreted] At top it look like a possible application to / sent to "HQ for file" And in the middle "Award" - we don't know all of them [yet?] FYI: the other Pension cards appear to offer up another Regimental No. of: 3285 [also has an address of 3 Cuthbert Street, Burnley - but this could be a error I suppose] :-) M Thanks. That is him, address 30 St Cuthbert Street, Burnley. That number is also on a few documents in his discharge/service papers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJS Posted 18 January , 2021 Share Posted 18 January , 2021 On 16/01/2021 at 08:26, michaela said: This is one of the papers amongst his discharge documents. Can anyone please help me decipher it? It may contain a medical diagnosis. I have picked up a few words, aggravated, assessed, treatment. Many thanks It looks to me like it is the final diagnosis and recommendation of the Army before he was discharged. I believe the 3rd and 4th lines say: "Assessed [date/place?] recommended for treatment in Asylum." The 1st two lines seem to be the actual diagnosis and I really have no idea but the 2nd word looks like "Institutional" (probably isn't) then "Aggravated by" and the last word on the 2nd line looks to be "capacity". Best I can do Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaela Posted 19 January , 2021 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2021 Many thanks PJS. I have looked at this a lot of times, without much success. I agree, the first 2 words are key words as to his diagnosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 19 January , 2021 Share Posted 19 January , 2021 Lancster Asylum is now converted to very nice flats - I had occasion to visit them recently. Some previous inmates recall their time there in this article. Lancaster Moor Asylum, Lancaster - Whatevers Left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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